TPMS 101, The Basics.
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From: Ontario
Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
I had to run a couple of miles on a very low, almost flat tire the other day and had to buy 2 front tires. I was hearing a double thump as I pulled into the tire shop. I am wondering if damage regularly occurs to the TPM sensors when running flat. The tire shop wanted to sell me some TPMS service and said "it was the law". I told them not to touch my sensors knowing that they were special in the frequency and training procedures.
So, I read that the DRBIII tool is needed. Having 3 Crossfires and ALL need new sensors, I am wondering if I should add the DRBIII tool to my arsenal and learn how to use it or try to get a package deal somewhere. Stealership perhaps?
So, I read that the DRBIII tool is needed. Having 3 Crossfires and ALL need new sensors, I am wondering if I should add the DRBIII tool to my arsenal and learn how to use it or try to get a package deal somewhere. Stealership perhaps?
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Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
I don't know what the law is on pre 2008. I would love to get a few hours to play with a DRBIII and capture it's codes sent to initialize the learn mode, then maybe you could send just that via a universal OBDII setup.
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From: Mesa Arizona
Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
Why not just install a complete aftermarket system? I see them on e-bay around a hundred bucks, some with not to bad looking readouts that could be installed fairly tastefully. And after looking at some more systems many read out the actual pressure of all four tires at once and some even read tire temperature. The more I look at the better I like it. What say you all?
Last edited by JSK; 12-02-2015 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Added info
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From: Schertz, TX.
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Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
The DRBIII puts the cars computer into learn mode to learn the new sensors. Aren't the Orange sensors the clone type? Some Orange is it's own system and you also need a new TPMS receiver.
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Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
Please define "program them" There are clone-able sensors or you train the cars computer to the new sensors.
The DRBIII puts the cars computer into learn mode to learn the new sensors. Aren't the Orange sensors the clone type? Some Orange is it's own system and you also need a new TPMS receiver.
The DRBIII puts the cars computer into learn mode to learn the new sensors. Aren't the Orange sensors the clone type? Some Orange is it's own system and you also need a new TPMS receiver.
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Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
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Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
That IS the biggest confusion factor! I use it as a gauge to the knowledge level of the tireshop/dealer I am talking to at the time.
If they want to program the sensors on my car, I just run away...
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From: Holland, Ohio, USA
Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
Not to give the tire shop folks more slack than they deserve, but there are even more chances for confusion. Several varieties of "programmable" TPMS replacement sensors are on the market, to deal with the vast number of sensor part numbers from car manufacturers. So instead of stocking several hundred different sensors, a tire store can tell (program) a replacement sensor to behave like, for instance, the old original Chrysler type TPMS sensor used on the Crossfire, 52088990AC (how many have found another sensor in their Crossfire? Anyone with a 315 MHz sensor?) versus another sensor.
Most of these multiprotocol sensors have their own fixed ID of eight characters, decimal numeric for Crossfire sensors I have seen, sometimes hexadecimal. A few also have a blank sensor ID which can be cloned to broadcast the same sensor ID as the original sensor which the car module already is looking for.
Again, many tire store people may not understand this, but so it is. My local Belle Tire used to carry Orange Electronic programmable sensors, but now uses another brand of multi-vehicle application sensors from Dynamic, which may not be cloned. Dynamic sensors say right on the box "A vehicle relearn procedure is required to complete the installation."
Since August 2015 a programmable cloneable replacement sensor is marketed by Schrader, their EZ-Sensor 33500. This one can not only be told to use the protocols of many different OE sensors, but can also use either the 433 MHz (all Crossfires I know about in North America) or the 315 MHz which is supposed to be in some Crossfire cars. The new EZ-sensor® part number 33500 replaces SKUs 33000 (315MHz) - 33200 (433MHz), which can also be used in a Crossfire.
Advantage of these blank ID cloneable sensors for Crossfire: if new sensors are installed with the same IDs as the old sensors - no DRB III plus multiplexer plus card required! The vehicle module sees the same old IDs, and carries on! Note that sensors on my Crossfire could be read by the handheld TPMS diagnostic tool more than two months after the vehicle system stopped seeing the signal. Although a couple of them did wait until "woken up" by the TPMS magnet before they broadcast their ID. [My old factory sensors also had labels on the sensor body with the ID printed - but that's for another post.]
There, that's a lot of what I had to say about "programmable sensors." And it very well could happen that a Discount Tire store (they do have the EZ-Sensors) could replace one or more of your low battery sensors, clone it, put the ID into a new sensor, and have you back with a functioning TPMS.
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From: Ontario
Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
Not to give the tire shop folks more slack than they deserve, but there are even more chances for confusion. Several varieties of "programmable" TPMS replacement sensors are on the market, to deal with the vast number of sensor part numbers from car manufacturers. So instead of stocking several hundred different sensors, a tire store can tell (program) a replacement sensor to behave like, for instance, the old original Chrysler type TPMS sensor used on the Crossfire, 52088990AC (how many have found another sensor in their Crossfire? Anyone with a 315 MHz sensor?) versus another sensor.
Most of these multiprotocol sensors have their own fixed ID of eight characters, decimal numeric for Crossfire sensors I have seen, sometimes hexadecimal. A few also have a blank sensor ID which can be cloned to broadcast the same sensor ID as the original sensor which the car module already is looking for.
Again, many tire store people may not understand this, but so it is. My local Belle Tire used to carry Orange Electronic programmable sensors, but now uses another brand of multi-vehicle application sensors from Dynamic, which may not be cloned. Dynamic sensors say right on the box "A vehicle relearn procedure is required to complete the installation."
Since August 2015 a programmable cloneable replacement sensor is marketed by Schrader, their EZ-Sensor 33500. This one can not only be told to use the protocols of many different OE sensors, but can also use either the 433 MHz (all Crossfires I know about in North America) or the 315 MHz which is supposed to be in some Crossfire cars. The new EZ-sensor® part number 33500 replaces SKUs 33000 (315MHz) - 33200 (433MHz), which can also be used in a Crossfire.
Advantage of these blank ID cloneable sensors for Crossfire: if new sensors are installed with the same IDs as the old sensors - no DRB III plus multiplexer plus card required! The vehicle module sees the same old IDs, and carries on! Note that sensors on my Crossfire could be read by the handheld TPMS diagnostic tool more than two months after the vehicle system stopped seeing the signal. Although a couple of them did wait until "woken up" by the TPMS magnet before they broadcast their ID. [My old factory sensors also had labels on the sensor body with the ID printed - but that's for another post.]
There, that's a lot of what I had to say about "programmable sensors." And it very well could happen that a Discount Tire store (they do have the EZ-Sensors) could replace one or more of your low battery sensors, clone it, put the ID into a new sensor, and have you back with a functioning TPMS.
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From: Alma, MI
Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
Not to give the tire shop folks more slack than they deserve, but there are even more chances for confusion. Several varieties of "programmable" TPMS replacement sensors are on the market, to deal with the vast number of sensor part numbers from car manufacturers. So instead of stocking several hundred different sensors, a tire store can tell (program) a replacement sensor to behave like, for instance, the old original Chrysler type TPMS sensor used on the Crossfire, 52088990AC (how many have found another sensor in their Crossfire? Anyone with a 315 MHz sensor?) versus another sensor.
Most of these multiprotocol sensors have their own fixed ID of eight characters, decimal numeric for Crossfire sensors I have seen, sometimes hexadecimal. A few also have a blank sensor ID which can be cloned to broadcast the same sensor ID as the original sensor which the car module already is looking for.
Again, many tire store people may not understand this, but so it is. My local Belle Tire used to carry Orange Electronic programmable sensors, but now uses another brand of multi-vehicle application sensors from Dynamic, which may not be cloned. Dynamic sensors say right on the box "A vehicle relearn procedure is required to complete the installation."
Since August 2015 a programmable cloneable replacement sensor is marketed by Schrader, their EZ-Sensor 33500. This one can not only be told to use the protocols of many different OE sensors, but can also use either the 433 MHz (all Crossfires I know about in North America) or the 315 MHz which is supposed to be in some Crossfire cars. The new EZ-sensor® part number 33500 replaces SKUs 33000 (315MHz) - 33200 (433MHz), which can also be used in a Crossfire.
Advantage of these blank ID cloneable sensors for Crossfire: if new sensors are installed with the same IDs as the old sensors - no DRB III plus multiplexer plus card required! The vehicle module sees the same old IDs, and carries on! Note that sensors on my Crossfire could be read by the handheld TPMS diagnostic tool more than two months after the vehicle system stopped seeing the signal. Although a couple of them did wait until "woken up" by the TPMS magnet before they broadcast their ID. [My old factory sensors also had labels on the sensor body with the ID printed - but that's for another post.]
There, that's a lot of what I had to say about "programmable sensors." And it very well could happen that a Discount Tire store (they do have the EZ-Sensors) could replace one or more of your low battery sensors, clone it, put the ID into a new sensor, and have you back with a functioning TPMS.
Do you have the clone able types on your car?
Last edited by KDW4Him; 01-02-2016 at 01:44 PM.
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Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
Here it is. CLICK
Last edited by onehundred80; 01-02-2016 at 01:00 PM.
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Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
Seems these have only been available since August, so maybe not much time for reports to trickle in. There was a post that seemed ambiguous on the type of sensor used but they were not done at the dealer.
Here it is. CLICK
Here it is. CLICK
See the chart, If I recall correctly Schrader said the Universal # was the programable.
https://www.schraderinternational.co..._lang=en-us-na This website says they were launched in 2010 so it sure seems we would have some reports of them working. The newest version looks like it's dual frequency for an even more universal application.
Last edited by KDW4Him; 01-02-2016 at 01:55 PM.
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From: Holland, Ohio, USA
Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
Thank you onehundred80 - can I have a real "tag"? for the video! Only I want to point out that it does not show the cloning operation which is what makes this so promising for Crossfire owners. At 0:49 and 1:52 in the video when he chooses "Create ID" he is electing to give the new replacement sensor a new random ID, not to "clone" the IDs which the vehicle already knows! Look at the options he did not take. The Bartec tool is ready to recall IDs of the old sensors from an earlier walk-around of the vehicle, then write those four IDs into new EZ-Sensors. Other options exist to copy only one old ID to replace only one. But the standard is to start at the left front and go around the vehicle clockwise. Even the DRB III relearn process follows this left front then clockwise.
[Yes, the Crossfire TPMS brain, wherever it lives, does know which sensor is at each corner. In case the cold placard pressures are different front to rear. There just was no easy way to display this with the SLK R170 system the Crossfire inherited.]
And KDW4Him - do you know how to tag here?: I, too, am waiting for solid verification that these sensors work properly in Crossfire. No, I took the chicken way out for my recent replacement, used the Schrader OEM type 20028 replacement. I suspect exactly the same hardware and software as the factory and Mopar 52088990AC. Which happen to be available at a bargain price from the UK warehouse of a China eBay seller at Tire Pressure Sensor TPMS 52088990AC for Chrysler Dodge Jeep | eBay Only these seem likely to be old stock somehow stranded in the UK, so batteries also may be old. Seller in China does not have much info.
And my local Chrysler dealership offered to do the DRB III relearn for the bargain price of $95! First quote was $185 to replace one of the sensors, but when I explained the sensors were already installed and it just needed the relearn process, it came down to $95. This dealership is only six miles from Chrysler in Auburn Hills, so must have as much Crossfire experience as any other dealership in the country.
My hypothesis: tire shops with the EZ-Sensors and programming / cloning tools may have successfully replaced TPMS sensors in many Crossfires without requiring the DRB III relearn process by simply and ignorantly following TPMS scan tool prompts. They just haven't realized what they were doing. They could also just as easily do what the video onehundred80 provided shows, given the EZ-Sensors new random IDs, and required the owner to go find the DRB III, plus, plus.
Many reports here on the Forum that techs everywhere expect the Crossfire to automatically relearn the sensor IDs by driving. Looks like all or nearly every other Chrysler since about 2005 can do this. This is what every tech expected during my recent sensor replacement experiences. The Crossfire does not have the LF trigger antennas at the wheels to enable this auto relearn.
Perhaps more than any other Crossfire tech issue, this TPMS replacement benefits from the owner knowing enough about the car and its quirks. People think a Crossfire will act like all other Chryslers - but it sure doesn't. And Mercedes uses (after the R170) a completely different TPMS, no overlap I can see with the Crossfire system. So owners - be warned, and informed.
And please report here if you know you have cloned TPMS sensors working!
[Yes, the Crossfire TPMS brain, wherever it lives, does know which sensor is at each corner. In case the cold placard pressures are different front to rear. There just was no easy way to display this with the SLK R170 system the Crossfire inherited.]
And KDW4Him - do you know how to tag here?: I, too, am waiting for solid verification that these sensors work properly in Crossfire. No, I took the chicken way out for my recent replacement, used the Schrader OEM type 20028 replacement. I suspect exactly the same hardware and software as the factory and Mopar 52088990AC. Which happen to be available at a bargain price from the UK warehouse of a China eBay seller at Tire Pressure Sensor TPMS 52088990AC for Chrysler Dodge Jeep | eBay Only these seem likely to be old stock somehow stranded in the UK, so batteries also may be old. Seller in China does not have much info.
And my local Chrysler dealership offered to do the DRB III relearn for the bargain price of $95! First quote was $185 to replace one of the sensors, but when I explained the sensors were already installed and it just needed the relearn process, it came down to $95. This dealership is only six miles from Chrysler in Auburn Hills, so must have as much Crossfire experience as any other dealership in the country.
My hypothesis: tire shops with the EZ-Sensors and programming / cloning tools may have successfully replaced TPMS sensors in many Crossfires without requiring the DRB III relearn process by simply and ignorantly following TPMS scan tool prompts. They just haven't realized what they were doing. They could also just as easily do what the video onehundred80 provided shows, given the EZ-Sensors new random IDs, and required the owner to go find the DRB III, plus, plus.
Many reports here on the Forum that techs everywhere expect the Crossfire to automatically relearn the sensor IDs by driving. Looks like all or nearly every other Chrysler since about 2005 can do this. This is what every tech expected during my recent sensor replacement experiences. The Crossfire does not have the LF trigger antennas at the wheels to enable this auto relearn.
Perhaps more than any other Crossfire tech issue, this TPMS replacement benefits from the owner knowing enough about the car and its quirks. People think a Crossfire will act like all other Chryslers - but it sure doesn't. And Mercedes uses (after the R170) a completely different TPMS, no overlap I can see with the Crossfire system. So owners - be warned, and informed.
And please report here if you know you have cloned TPMS sensors working!
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From: Alma, MI
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Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
It sits on top of it I think. Take the map light unit out and you can see it. I powered my dim-able interior mirror from it I think.
Another bit of info I have had in my files for sometime now.
Installing the sensors.CLICK
I cannot help think that this problem is much simpler than we make it out to be.
In this example CLICK it seems to have been done successfully without being raped by the dealer.
I had four snow tires fitted to rims with sensors in them at Tire Rack in the US for my Hyundai and I had no trouble.
When I fitted Sparkies tires to my SRT I had no light come on.
Maybe a random number in the correct number range at the right frequency is all the system requires.The chances of two cars with the same signals passing one another over 20 mph and one having a flat tire and the other not, is too fleeting to affect the respective systems. Maybe Chrysler kept the numbers hush hush, at $100 + a pop they have a good reason to.
Having sensors on tires with different pressures on the same tire should not be a problem, they both drop 25% before lighting up.
When they say the technician should go clockwise around the car starting at a certain tire I think that is to make sure he does not confuse himself and get lost and mistakenly do the car beside the car he is working on. Just joking - I think.
Another bit of info I have had in my files for sometime now.
Installing the sensors.CLICK
I cannot help think that this problem is much simpler than we make it out to be.
In this example CLICK it seems to have been done successfully without being raped by the dealer.
I had four snow tires fitted to rims with sensors in them at Tire Rack in the US for my Hyundai and I had no trouble.
When I fitted Sparkies tires to my SRT I had no light come on.
Maybe a random number in the correct number range at the right frequency is all the system requires.The chances of two cars with the same signals passing one another over 20 mph and one having a flat tire and the other not, is too fleeting to affect the respective systems. Maybe Chrysler kept the numbers hush hush, at $100 + a pop they have a good reason to.
Having sensors on tires with different pressures on the same tire should not be a problem, they both drop 25% before lighting up.
When they say the technician should go clockwise around the car starting at a certain tire I think that is to make sure he does not confuse himself and get lost and mistakenly do the car beside the car he is working on. Just joking - I think.
Last edited by onehundred80; 01-03-2016 at 05:54 PM.
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Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
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From: Ontario
Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.
Then why did Sparkies SRT wheels not trigger the light on my car? I drove it 30 miles, and they do not take anywhere near that to recognize the sensor when air is added to get the tire up to the correct pressure.
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Re: TPMS 101, The Basics.