Sounds like Crank Position Sensor to me. I've not experienced it myself, but I've read alot about it. Once you let the car cool down it will work again until it heats up. There are quite a few threads on this and from what I remember the part isn't ridiculously expensive - for a change!

Hope this helps.

Regards

AR

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by madwolf70

I have a 2004 crossfire, I drove it about 5 miles parked it for about 3 to 4 hours. I started it up to head home, and on the way I stopped to get a soda. I started it up a drove home, when I got to the house it all of the sudden died in the driveway. I tried to restart and it would just turn over. This is the first time it happened. I had been driving the car most of the day yesterday was doing fine, then the car died. It did not start right away, after letting it sit for about 30 mins it restarted. It did this to me 2 more times before I could get it home. Each time I waited about 30 mins or longer before it would restart.

Black03AR is correct. CPS. About $40 for the part.

The Sticky fix is HERE

Do a search on "crank position sensor" and you will be an expert!

 

update from my last replacements.

I bought a new check valve and a new air pump. Installed them both and still having a check engine light issue. its so frustrating.

I checked out the board and didn't notice any burnt parts on it. It looked very clean. Even the solder points were ok.

I am not sure what to do next. When I go to the dealer they told me that I need to go through them and have them install an original OEM pump. I feel this is not true because dealers and online sellers get their pumps from Bosch. Furthermore the dealer told me it takes 3 hours to install when it took me all of 30 minutes to install a check valve and the air pump.

I got my pump from here: Chrysler Crossfire Secondary Air Pump 2004 Smog Pump: eBay Motors (item 270456521715 end time Sep-09-10 12:10:18 PDT)

Mercedes air pump: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...=STRK:MEWNX:IT

The SLK uses the same air pump as the crossfire, so I got the SLK air-pump.


That is the Chrysler air pump. I have the Mercedes version in my crossfire but I don't know if that makes a difference. They both look the same and say Bosch on them. Could there be a electric current difference between the Chyrsler and Mercedes pump? The Mercedes pump was about $50.00 cheaper.

The dealers swears this is an aftermarket part and cannot possibly be authentic. They (dealer) claims the price difference says it all. The dealer wants $800.00 for the part. I mean are they right? can it be possible that ebay is selling fake Bosch pumps? It didn't look fake at all. looked like my old pump..

I don't know what else to replace. The CEL is intermittent. It comes on from time to time. May stay off for a while, then comes on at random. I don't know what triggers it. I have been researching in the forum and have tried many of the different fixes but still to no avail.

I have even replaced the little blue valve. None of these have worked to silenced the CEL.. I don't think the dealer will be able to do anything I haven't done..

I want to keep my crossfire but this CEL is driving me mad. Anything I might have missed..? They (Dealer) offered me $9,000 for a trade in on a Challenger or Cherokee.. It is appetizing...

While those are both great vehicles, I really want to keep my Crossfire..

Anyone have any ideas? I cannot help but think its gotta be something stupid.. like a old electric cord or something.. And I replaced all these parts for nothing...

 

Hello solnyc2,

I'm sorry to hear of your continued problem. My CEL went away after replacing my fried pump, I disconnected the battery for about 20min and every thing has been alright since then. Now I'm no expert but I believe you problem is down to one of the following:

1) New Air Pump is functioning intermittently
2) Ground cable on pump has corrosion (needs a good clean)
3) The contacts on the plug connected to the pump need a clean
4) Check the big 40 amp orange fuse on the top of the RCM (mine was blown, although you say your CEL is intermittent so unlikely to be this)
5) Faulty RCM - it may look alright but it is still a problem part
6) May just need a reset - disconnect the battery for a while and reconnect
7) Faulty air pressure valves - the 2 metal ones on either side of the pump - although I have not heard of these going wrong before

Have you heard the new pump running? should come on when you start the car first thing in the morning, sounds like a vacuum cleaner. If not check that there is a current passing through the live wire on the plug connected to the pump.

I bought my new pump from Ebay too and it was genuine as far as I could tell, there are a few companies that recondition them to sell. I think the stealership are trying to make money out of you - no suprise!

I hope this helps.

Regards

AR

 

Hi Black03ar,

Thanks for your reply and suggestions. I have answered your questions below in red.

1) New Air Pump is functioning intermittently
Hmm, actually I reordered a third pump as I suspected this might be the culprit. It still triggers a CEL.
2) Ground cable on pump has corrosion (needs a good clean)
Clean as a whistle..
3) The contacts on the plug connected to the pump need a clean
Clean as a whistle..
4) Check the big 40 amp orange fuse on the top of the RCM (mine was blown, although you say your CEL is intermittent so unlikely to be this)
Yes, the orange fuse is good to go..
5) Faulty RCM - it may look alright but it is still a problem part
How do I get another one of these? Can i order off of ebay?
6) May just need a reset - disconnect the battery for a while and reconnect
How does this work? Does this work the same as clearing the code with a code reader?
7) Faulty air pressure valves - the 2 metal ones on either side of the pump - although I have not heard of these going wrong before
Hmm, can these be ordered off of Ebay? Are the expensive?

 

Hey solnyc2,

Okay so following from your feedback:

RCM - do not order from ebay, I haven't seen any new ones for sale, only used ones that are probably shot!

You're best bet is to order one through Mercedes, in my experience this is a lot cheaper than going to Chrysler. See what Mercedes quote you. I know you can get one in the UK for £109 and Chrylser wanted £170 for exactly the same part!

I used a fault code reader to clear the code, but I did the battery disconnect too for good measure + I had added a new exhaust and CAI so I wanted to reset the ECU as fully as possible.

I have seen new air pressure valves (although they are called air check valves - but the 2 metal valves in any case) on ebay for about $65 each - but as I say, I've not heard of these going wrong.

I would say the RCM is the culprit, if you have an older Crossfire like an 04 then to me its the next logical option after the battery disconnect - which doesn't cost anything and may well solve it for you.

I hope this helps - I'm no expert, but I had the same issue and it was driving me insane, I knew my pump was fried so that was the first port of call and it solved the issue.

Good luck with it

Regards

AR

 

The dealer is....of course....trying to feed you a bunch of crap.. The Bosch pump is the same for MB and Chrysler...

Check all the hoses and make sure they are tight and no cracks... you can try flexing the hoses while running (CAREFULLY) and see if you can induce the CEL... it sounds like you have and intermittant leak and this may help find where....

I have had the large hose coming off the air pump pop off once and I knocked the line to one of the vaccume switches off while under the hood and didnt notice it till I got the CEL...

 

Hi MikeR,

Thanks for the information. I did check the pipes and they are sealed on the pump and the two silver valves.
Unless there is another pipe I am missing...

I checked the check valve pipes too..

I will try squeezing the pipes to see if I can induce a CEL..

Black03AR, do you know the name of the RCM for the Mercedes SLK? I went to the Mercedes dealership to inquire and they said there was no such part for the 2004 SLK which is the same exact model as my 2004 Crossfire, less the body style.

Perhaps the Mercedes calls the RCM module something different? I did try to do a search online for the Mercedes RCM part.

Thanks Fellas..

 

RCM MB Part No: A1705450305 - same part on the R170 SLK - the earlier ones that our cars are based on.

Hope this helps

Regards

AR

 

Hi Black03AR,

I just got off the phone with the dealer. Mercedes calls it a relay and they told me it's $350.00.
Sounds right?

I can replace this part with them existing Chrysler part? I mean it should be the same.

Thanks again

 

Hey Solnyc2,

Thats definately the part, there is no real Chrysler part - they will supply you with the Mercedes part - generally Chrysler are more expensive but ask around - try different Mercedes and Chrysler dealerships, I'm sure this part can be had for cheaper. They cost the equvalent of $169 here in the UK.

I would hate for you to spend all that money only for the issue to remain unresolved. Make sure you exhaust all other possiblities before spending your cash, if you know someone else with a Crossfire, try out their RCM in your car. You will most likely not be able to return a new RCM once purchased, as it is an electrical component, as least that's how it is here in the UK.

Best of luck in getting the issue sorted - whilst spending the least amount of money!

Regards

AR

 

I just had this PO0410 problem that started as intermittent and finally turned full on. The dealer diagnosed it as Relay Control Module open, not covered by my full 100K warranty. I balked at the $347 plus labor cost and decided to look into the RCM. I found it in the plastic box next to the battery. Inside the big black box is the bundle/black box that is nearest to the engine. I popped off the cover and saw several open frame relays. Looking closely at the one nearest the firewall I noticed some contact point discoloration. Here's how I fixed it:
1. Disconnect Negative terminal on Battery
2. grind down a small diamond encrusted nail file so it is only about 1/8 inch wide
3. Remove the RCM so you can work on it in a clean and open environment
4. gently file the burnt points
5. reassemble
6. reset the code and check again. If you don't have a code reader, then go to AutoZone or Advance Auto and they will do it for free.
7. Smile if this was the problem, for you just saved $500.

For you Electrical Engineers out there, it failed because the designer skipped using a diode to dissipate the back EMF, as per good relay design. Also, the relay is probably underspecified for this application.
If any of you have the RCM replaced by the dealer, save the old one since all the relays inside this box have the same part number and can be used to fix the RCM the next time it fails (which will happen every 20-40K miles).

 

Now that is pretty useful stuff - thanks Gabor.

 

I'm still walking around with a smile on my face!

 

This is a very interesting post and should be remembered when this problem arises.

 

solnyc- I didn't see an answer for the most important question. When the car is cold do you hear the pump run??? Open your hood and start your car in the morning then walk back and listen. If it's running you'll know it, it is loud. It should run for about 30 seconds.

 

HI Tunaglove,

It did use to run. It was also intermittent as well.
I just replaced the RCM and it seems to be ok. I haven't heard the pump run yet but there is no CEL as of late.

I purchased the RCM from Mercedes and it came with new fuses.

I just read in this forum that due to a HW designers flaw we are all subject to a 20-40k RCM shelf life.

That really sucks if it is true. RCM's aren't cheap. I have my old one and it looks clean and new. No burnt areas what so ever.

Really strange.

 

I told folks in the past that the RCM would cause the air pump fault. That is why I now clean the contacts of that one relay whenever someone sends me a RCM for repair.
Check out the burnt contact on the left relay and compare it with the relay contacts on the right relay. There's the problem.

P.S. - You could always donate your old RCM to the Forum!
I'll fix it and use it to help other forum members when they have RCM problems.
Check out the LRCM link HERE.

 

Hi Folks,

For future reference does anyone have pointers about opening the relay box? it can be quite frustrating popping it open. Use a small screwdriver but I know that isnt the best practice.

I got it open. You are correct tighed1, I couldn't see it at first but there is slight discoloration with the connector. Also I noticed that the connector piece doesn't really touch as the others do. I guess this can contribute to the intermittent connection for the pump as well...

 

I was working on this same problem last night. I actually ripped apart the pump to look at the motor. The problem with the pumps is the brush holders are made of plastic. They melt and cause the carbon brushes to go askew. Then they wear out and get stuck from all the dust and junk in there. So they don't make good contact with the armature. This will give you intermittant results. Here is how you should troubleshoot this:

First go get two alligator clip test leads and a piece of 16gauge lamp cord from Radio Shack of Ace Hardware.
Remove pump from car.
Put the alligator clips on the terminal lugs on the pump then observing polarity (printed on pump) touch the wire to the battery.
It should go like hell. Start and stop it a few times to make sure you don't have a dead spot. Make sure wind comes out of the pump to verify the nut didn't come loose on the fan blade.

No go ? Get a new pump. Good? remount and connect pump.

Next dissconnect your neg. battery cable.
Remove the RCM module, pry off cover, and set it on a piece of cardboard assuring it can't slide around and touch metal.

Reconnect Neg. battery cable.
With a pencil push down on the first relay.

Does the pump go? If yes, then the problem lies with the vacuum system that opens the valves on the manifolds.
If no, then the problem is either the relay contact (just clean it), fuse, or wiring in between.

Try that first and I can help with the vacuum stuff if need be.

Remember to disconnect battery again when putting the RCM back.