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No Crank / No Start (Not RCM)

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-24-2022 | 12:35 PM
ZERACER's Avatar
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From: Orange County CA.
Default Re: No Crank / No Start (Not RCM)

I agree with Viper, disconnect the battery and wait about five minutes. Hook the battery up and start the car. If it tries to start three times and then nothing, it is probably the screem. If it does nothing, odds are, it is the RCM. Under 200.00 and 10 munutes to swap out.
 
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-24-2022 | 01:23 PM
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Default Re: No Crank / No Start (Not RCM)

Originally Posted by red_2005_convertible
Sorry for belaboring the point, but I haven't been able to get to removing the SKREEM and ECU until tonight. After re-reading all of the posts, before I remove parts I just want to check if my symptoms still indicate a SKREEM problem. About 4 months ago, I pulled into my driveway and turned off the car. The next day I tried to start it, and got no crank - dash lights went on, windows worked, door locks worked, but no crank. After reading some of the suggestions, I left my key in for more than 30 seconds, the fans didn't go on, and still no crank. Tried the quick key thrust, nothing. Disconnected the negative terminal for a day, put the battery on a charger. Connected the battery again, the rear spoiler went up, still no crank. Tried to move the shifter out of park, won't move even with the key in the ON position (is that also a symptom of a bad SKREEM?) and the rear spoiler won't go down even when the key is in the on position. Starter and solenoid are good - jumped the pulse module. I do have rodent problems - the recent issue was they chewed through the windshield washer motor cable, and the reservoir sensors located under the battery (could they have chewed something else that is preventing starting?) I guess it can hurt removing the security program, but if I don't have to spend $450, I don't want to.
Thanks in advance,
-Jerry
This does not sound SKREEM related to me.

The fact you have a "no crank" and a "won't come outta park" tells me that some of the switched ignition power is missing. THis is often the RCM.

If you have had wiring chewed, ANYTHING is possible. I'd grab a DMM and the service diagrams in the service manual and start tracing power to all of the following:

ECU/PCM
RCM (inputs and outputs)
SKREEM
TCU (Transmission Control Unit)
(SLA) Shift Lever Assembly

Now, the easy way is to troubleshoot ONE symptom at a time. Often, all symptoms are caused by the same failure, not multiple failures. So, what single failure can inhibit the functioning of the starter and the Park lock solenoid and also cause the wing to deploy when you turn the key on? Easy: Power missing or unstable to the Brake Controller will cause the last two issues but won't cause the fan to run fast, and yours doesn't. I'd start there.

You need someone good at electronic troubleshooting and following wiring diagrams. Essentially no dealer (because 'mechanics' are ignorant of electronic theory and there is no factory support to help them) or garage (again, 'mechanics' who understand electronic troubleshooting are rare) can help you there. Probably easier to drive the car off a cliff or sell it for parts.

Or............. you can learn to do this yourself. Now, we have several forum members that are currently working on cars near them for reasonable rates but you give no location in your profile which makes it impossible to know who is close to you, so I can't recommend anyone.
 
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 12-24-2022 | 03:12 PM
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Default Re: No Crank / No Start (Not RCM)

Check the operation of the traction control relay in the RCM (right relay in the circled area). It should remain in the CLOSED position with the key in the ON Position.
Is it?


 
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-24-2022 | 07:37 PM
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Default Re: No Crank / No Start (Not RCM)

But DJ, why does it not engage the starter?
I did not think a failure with the TC relay would rob you of an engine crank, tho I have not tested to be sure.
 
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 12-24-2022 | 09:17 PM
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Default Re: No Crank / No Start (Not RCM)

Originally Posted by pizzaguy
But DJ, why does it not engage the starter?
I did not think a failure with the TC relay would rob you of an engine crank, tho I have not tested to be sure.
Haven't really looked into it but it's definitely a thing. Have seen it a bunch of times.
 
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2022 | 12:39 PM
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From: Escondido, Ca
Default Re: No Crank / No Start (Not RCM)

Hi All,
Thanks everyone so much for the replies. I'll hold up on the SKREEM, and try to follow up on the electrical troubleshooting. I'm no electrical engineer, but I have used a DMM before on old Mustangs and as long it's just relays and wires I think I should be able to figure it out. I live in Escondido California, about 35 miles north east of San Diego. I re-flowed the solder in the RCM before as a preventative measure, but before I do that again, I'll first look to see if the appropriate relays are closed as suggested by T. One other thing is that along with the four wires under the battery that got chewed, there was a gray air? line under there that was chewed up - I fixed that one as well, but I don't know what it does - probably not related... I thought it was part of the pneumatic lines that control the locks, but all the locks worked before and still do. Having the transmission stuck in park is a PITA - the car was blocking the garage and I had to move it further back in the driveway - I ended up buying wheel dollys from Harbor Freight for $65, putting them under rear wheels. Since I was on a slight incline, my wife was behind the wheel to steer and use the brakes (front brakes worked) while I pushed. The small wheels (2.5 inch dia) on the dollys aren't the most convenient, but it worked.

Thanks again for all the advice, I'll probably only be able to work on the car on the weekends so my responses maybe limited to Saturday or Sunday nights
Sincerely
-Jerry
 
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2023 | 06:08 PM
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From: Escondido, Ca
Default Re: No Crank / No Start (Not RCM)

Hi All,
Happy New Year. With the holidays, and the rain in California, I've only had a few hours to work on my car. Here's a quick update. I checked the RCM as suggested by tighed1, and only one of the relays was closed when I put the key to the on position. I replaced the RCM with a known good one from another crossfire - both relays were closed, and the spoiler now works. Still no crank. I stumbled onto a post about how to manually get the shifter out of park - there is an assess port near the drive symbol on the shift plate (never noticed it before), and using an awl, I was able depressed something in the hole to get the shifter out of park and put it into neutral. I tried starting it again, and for the briefest second, the starter tried to engage. Since I wasn't expecting it to work, I had only connected the negative battery cable loosely - at the time I thought it didn't start because of the loose battery cable. I tightened up the battery cable, but nothing happened - no crank. I also tried to manually start the car by putting the key to the on position, shifter in park or neutral and jumping the starter solenoid - the car cranked, put never even tried to start. I'm inferring from that brief initial crank that my wiring is okay, but something else is amiss. I think my next step is to check the brake switch and the transmission neutral safety switch. Looking at Rockauto, I've found what the brake switch looks like, but they don't sell a neutral safety switch - does that reside in the TCU or in the shift lever?
Thanks for any help in advance,
Sincerely
Jerry
 
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2023 | 04:25 AM
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From: Germany
Default Re: No Crank / No Start (Not RCM)

If it cranks every time, than it isn't a Skreem issue. So test if the ignition and the spark plugs are working. Also if the fuel pump runs. If both works the engine have to start. If you have no ignition it could be a bad camshaft sensor. Please use only Mercedes or Bosch as replacement.
 
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2023 | 08:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
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From: Escondido, Ca
Default Re: No Crank / No Start (Not RCM)

Hi Viper,
No, it doesn't crank at all. Just one time since it stopped working, when I turned the key, it sounded like the starter wanted to engage, but nothing happened. After that, turning the key gives no crank, no start. It's been raining here so I haven't had a chance to check the brake safety switch yet. Sadly, still have to go to work
 
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2023 | 09:55 AM
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From: Germany
Default Re: No Crank / No Start (Not RCM)

Originally Posted by red_2005_convertible
Hi Viper,
No, it doesn't crank at all. Just one time since it stopped working, when I turned the key, it sounded like the starter wanted to engage, but nothing happened. After that, turning the key gives no crank, no start. It's been raining here so I haven't had a chance to check the brake safety switch yet. Sadly, still have to go to work
Ok, than test the brake switch and maybe the P or N switch doesn't work.
 
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2023 | 10:14 PM
red_2005_convertible's Avatar
Joined: Apr 2012
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From: Escondido, Ca
Default Re: No Crank / No Start (Not RCM)

Hi All,
just thought I would post an update. I checked out the brake switch - the switch has 6 contacts in two rows of 3. Only one 3 contact connector with 2 wires is connected to it. I unplugged the connector and using 18 gauge wire where I flattened the ends with a hammer, shorted the two contacts on the connector - hooray, the shift lever will now shift out of park when I turn the key to the on position, but still no crank . I took the brake light switch out - it's fairly easy to do once you drop the bottom plastic - there is a clip you press on the side, and then rotate it 90 degrees (don't remember if it was clockwise or CC), and it comes right out. Using my DMM, I figured out how the switch is wired - when the brake pedal is in its neutral position, it presses the plunger on the switch in, opening the circuit. When the plunger is out, brake pedal pushed down, it closes the circuit. The rows are isolated from each other, but the pins in the row short to each other when the plunger moves out. I worked the plunger several time, and it seems to work now, so I reinstalled it - it now I can move the shifter out of park if I have my foot on the brake pedal, so some progress. Next I removed the trim around the shift lever to see if there was any crud on the circuit board - it was dusty, but it didn't look like anything spilled on it. I vacuumed it out with a shop vac, but no joy - still no crank. Next week I'll start looking at systems suggested by Pizzaguy.
Thanks for all the advice,
-Jerry
PS. I installed a new battery, and the pneumatic line under the battery goes to the HVAC blend door (saw that in another post)
 
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