Changed the oil this weekend, myself as I always do, tried a new filter brand (bosch type) STAY AWAY FROM THESE) I should have known better but when I replaced the orings I noticed the largest one did not fit snug on the housing right out of the box. Took it for a test drive anyway and everything seemed ok.

On my way to work my battery indicator came on, I have about 50,000 miles so I figured it was probobly letting go, just turned off all the lights/radio and didn't have too much farther to go.

The first turn off the expressway I almost lost the car in the guardrail as the powersteering was surprisingly gone! At this point I know the serpentine belt is probobly toast, only another mile to go so I figure I'll limp to the nearest parking lot.

First Traffic light, the temp starts to climb and I smell oil. I immediatly start cussing that damn O-ring lol. Lifted the hood in the parking garage and the serpentine belt was gone but replaced with about 2 quarts of fresh 0w40.

On to the questions...

• Anything special about replacing the serp belt I need to worry about?
• Can I jump start this car if needed, a search seemed to indicate it wasn't a wise?
• Where can I get a decent filter with reputable O-rings?
• Any recommendations for getting that oil out of my engine bay?

Previously I was using FRAM but their paper filters are crap, I actually went to 4 parts stores and even the dealer which all produced similar paper (or maybe its fleece) filters. grrrrr I want the silver one that looks almost metalic that came with the car, very heavy duty and bound much more.

Thanks in advance.

 

I buy my filters at Mercedes. I think they are 16 bucks. At least I know they are right. Not sure about your other questions but that's one of them answered.

 

I've found that if you tighten it more than hand tight it will leak sooner or later know matter what filter you use.

 

Sorry that this happened! I cringed while reading your story. But now you have to deal with it.

First thing ... Bosch filters should be OK for our cars. Maybe the one you got wasn't for a Crossfire. The 5 "O" rings that come with the filter, we only use 4 with 1 being a spare. You say you've changed your oil before, so you know that the large "O' ring does not fit close up to the cap flange, it fits just below it in the groove. This is the most common cause for oil leaking, along with improper tightening. tightening should be done with a torque wrench and I think its 18lbs.

Second ... I wouldn't jump start it .... have it towed.

Third ... there are 2 sizes of serp belts for our cars. One for SRT and the other for N/A cars. If you have special pulleys added to your car (or previous owners have), you may have to use a serp belt to fit the "new" configuration, because the OEM's won't be long enuff. Measure the old belt if possible.
Fourth ... If you really say about 2 qts of oil got on engine ,,, thats a lot to have leaked past a bad "O" ring. You might have a cracked/broken filter housing or cap. Check that also. If it only seems like 2 qts, because its all over, I personally would have it professionally cleaned. It is a messy and time consuming job to do right.

Just my thoughts ..... and $.02 Good Luck

 

Where did you put the O-Rings? They are supposed to fit in the grooves not go under the flat face or any thing like that.
This has been covered before, it is not the filters fault, it's probably yours.

 

Thanks a lot for the replies some good info here.
The car is a stock base model so no special pullies here.
I just looked over the damage on my lunch break and I found the serpentine belt on the skid plate. On careful inspection and a quick clean I don't see any flaws it must have spun off and fell directly on the plastic skidplate. (Its a brand new belt also)

I checked the oil and it is not registering low at all (I'm on a slight incline so its probobly not accurate) so Its likely lot less of a spill than I initially thought, I was assuming it must have leaked a bunch on the road, the puddle under my car is only about softball size with about a half a cup of oil pooling on the skid plate.

I take the blame fully here as I was the one who changed the oil.
FWIW I've never had issues the other 12 or so times I've changed it in this car. I was aware of the proper location of the large O-ring. My true fault was not stopping once I initially noticed the new oring didn't fit snug in the groove. There was zero tension on the ring if not a small gap (perhaps its just a fluke with the one I bought?)
I almost considered putting the used one back on but didn't think it was too bad to warrant failure. The loose fit likely caused the Oring to jump the groove when I tightened the housing (I followed the torque spec on the housing which I think was 25nm), I'll take a close look when I get a chance after work.
I can't justify the hassle/cost of towing the car home its about an hour, not to mention the tow truck will not fit in the parking garage so I will try to get this repaired this evening.
The car still has enough juice to run the lights (didnt try the ignition for obvious reasons) I also parked on the third floor of the garage just in case a rolling start would be needed (thankful for manual trans )

new questions

• Is there a good store bought degreaser I can use to get the pullies clean enough to safely install/operate the serpentine?
• Anything wrong with a rolling start/popping clutch to start if the battery isn't up to it?
• Any risk that the serp belt could be not visibly flawed...such as stretched?
• The belt tensioner setup looks fairly simple any recommendations on tools for this? I know most have a nut or hole that you can use to remove tension to allow for belt install.

Again thanks for responses.

While I feel better about this situation than I did this morning, I have just been surprised by the door sill rust fairy...its not good but that will be another thread.

 

For what it's worth, I've been compiling an all-inclusive list of all of the stuff we need to know about our cars. here's a bit:


Oil filter oring sizes (All Viton)
3" ID X .139" (1/8") AS-234
22 mm ID X 3 mm
17 mm ID X 3 mm
10 mm X 2.5 mm

I don't know how they figured out the size for the large o ring for the cap seal, but it is not a standard metric size. It is an ASA (US spec) size, hence the AS-234).

 

Max
I think you will find that 3" O-Ring which is 76,2 mm and .139" which is 3.53 mm is really a metric 75 mm x 3.50 mm. ( 2.952" x .138")
The Metric O-Ring would be snug in the groove, the 3" O-Ring would be looser - too loose?.
I would question the use of Viton O-Rings as they seem like over kill temperature wise. Nitrile O-Rings are good for continuous service at 225 -250 degrees F. depending on what specific composition the material is. The use of the Viton O-Rings would be money wasted in the filter makers eyes.
I have to admit that I have had none of these in my hand so my observations are strictly based on O-Ring use on other applications.

 

You can use Simple Green to get the oil off.

 

Thanks again. I'm in a pinch anyone have a diagram on the belt layout? I'm having difficulty finding it with my phone. Strangely there is no layout sticker under the bonnet...

 

Here'you go.

 

I figured some Canuck (or Euro) would chime in here- There was no metric equivalent shown in my quite old Parker O-ring Design Guide and none on the McMaster-Carr website. The 3 smaller ones are quite common and available.

A M3.5 X 75 will work and is correct.

As for material selection, Viton is definitely indicated for these temps and materials/fluids (synthetic oils).

Buna-N (Neoprene) is typically a third choice in this application.

Please use this:

About Resistance of O-Ring Materials


The cost differential is very small. $1 each for Buna and $1.50 each for Viton. (Inch size)

Temp chart:

Materials are listed in order of least to most expensive.

Nitrile (Buna-N, NBR)
–30°F to 250°F (–34°C to 121°C)

EPDM (Ethylene Propylene, EPM)
–70°F to 300°F (–57°C to 149°C)

Neoprene (Chloroprene, CR)
–35°F to 225°F (–37°C to 107°C)

Silicone (VMQ)
–65°F to 450°F (–54°C to 232°C)

Viton (Fluorocarbon, FKM)
–15°F to 400°F (–26°C to 205°C)

Polyurethane (AU, EU)
–40°F to 180°F (–40°C to 82°C)

Fluorosilicone (FVMQ)
–100°F to 350°F (–73°C to 177°C)

Aflas (Tetrafluoroethylene Propylene, FEPM)
25°F to 450°F (–4°C to 232°C)

Kalrez (Perfluoroelastomer, FFKM)
–15°F to 600°F (–26°C to 316°C)

 

50/50 mix of simple green will clean the engine up nicley. the belt may have oil crushed into the fibers causing slippage later on. best bet replace it

 

These are the only one's I've ever used. I change my oil and filters every 1000 miles. Only at 10k now in 3 1/2 yrs. So mainly like every 4 months. Also use the very bottom O-ring to replace the one on your dipstick.

Case of Mann Fleece Oil Filters

 

Does anyone offer or looked into a redigned filter system. This seems like a pain with all the "o" rings.

Dave
dtinker

 

Actually not hard to do at all . Accessible from the top and very easy to install the o rings and filter on the workbench. Just have to make sure the o rings are replaced properly. To keep track of positioning I remove one then install the new one..........one at a time.

 

The belt tensioner is dealt with in the 2004 Service Manual in section 7, page 45.
You need a 5mm (3/16") diameter locking pin, it shows the cast in hex head to use as a leverage spot. Others use another spot to lever on as the cast hex head tends to round over quickly, but maybe they are not using a metric wrench or socket.

DRIVE BELT

REMOVAL

1. Rotate the belt tensioner (1) with a wrench and lock in
place with a 5mm pin (2) or drift.
2. Remove the accessory drive belt from the pulleys.
3. Inspect the accessory drive belt. Refer to damage patterns.

Refer to Page 7-45

5. Replace the accessory drive belt or pulleys as required.

 

I managed to get everything back together in the parking garage last night.
I wouldn't have been possible without the help from here special thanks to the user who posted the belt drive image, I'm still dumfounded this diagram isnt under the hood.
There are many technical responses here with some good information.
While everything went back together fine it wasn't without additional complications for those that like the rest of the story:

• visited Advance Auto Parts Grabbed a new fram and bosch unit off the shelf just to compare the orings. The largest one is definately a smaller material thickness and slightly larger diameter than the fram so as indicated in previous posts we might be on to something regarding sae vs metric. It appears not just a fluke but may affect all the bosch types.
• The off the shelf fram book listed only a non-stock premium filter and no standard option...but their computer listed IIRC ch8481? which is a bit subpar. It is not reinforced and the diameter is much too small. It feels like the housing might break trying to get it on while the bosch requires little effort. The fram also sits about a half inch lower on the shaft due to its height and internal hole diameter. In summary I ended up using the bosch filter with fram oil rings until I can research more options. (chrysler wanted $32.00 for their paper version )
• Picked up a metric serpentine belt toolkit and degreaser
• Spent about an hour looking for the belt diagram via owners manual and online searching (from phone)
• Cleaned/degreased the areas I could get to.
• Back to the parts store again as the metric kit only included 15mm, 16mm, and 18mm Doh! Bought a new 17mm socket and the belt went right on.
• Car was fully charged and started no problem with no battery indicator light. Drove the 25 miles home and so far no leaks.

I will need to do a proper detail on the engine bay but the hard part is done. Once again thanks!

 

I would personnally use a gel based cleaner/degreaser made for the engine. The new gel formula adheres to the parts of the engine longer and will really eat that oil off them, let it sit for 10 mins and brush the parts you can get to and around all the pullies, and you will have a spotless engine.

Follow that up with a dose of CD2 to give it that wet look and restore the black finish to your grey/aged parts....

 

Advanced Autoparts sells Mann filters under the Purolator name. Each store stocks 2 of them complete with 5 "O" rings (about $12 ea). They are genuine Mann filters made in Germany-stamped on top of the filter. Part number is L25277. 100% on this as I just came in from changing the oil not 30 minutes ago and I am staring at the used filter box.

Three things to note: 1) make sure you push the filter all the way down on the oil stick/cap until only 1 black line is visible-this is easier to do if you put a coating of oil on the "O" rings. 2) Replace all of the "O" rings (4) each time you change the oil and filter, making sure that the largest "O" ring is in the groove below the cap NOT directly under the lip of the cap - as previously mentioned. 3) My oil filter cap/stick, whatever you call it is always replaced hand tight. Mine stops turning at a certain point - when the treads bottom out. It is tight, don't get me wrong, but I have never used a wrench on it to put it on or take it off. Maybe the KungFu grip is kicking in! HAHA! I have 40K miles on the car and knock on wood haven't had any leaks.

One other word of caution: I have had the oil dip stick pop out on me, but I was never sure if I just didn't push it in all the way or if it started to push out. That can make a big mess if it comes out far enough while you are hammering on the car. Make sure it is properly seated and if it is loose, put a zip tie on it, just in case.

Good luck and sorry to hear about your mess. Like others have said, SimpleGreen is a good degreaser. Follow-up with some HyperLube from Meguiers to give your engine bay that like-new appearance and to keep your hoses from drying out and looking like crap. Keep it off your new belt.

KrzyFast