But were afraid to ask! A great writeup from Snow Performance!

Methanol/Water Injection FAQ

1. What are the benefits of Water/Methanol injection?
1. Low cost - where else can you get up to 60HP for $299.
2. More power than other means of detonation control.
3. Efficiency - leaner air fuel ratio can be utilized for normal operation.
4. Greatly increases air charge densities for huge horesepower increases.


2. Do I need an IntercoolerA "radiator for air" that absorbs intake air heat to cool down the hot air charge from the turbo. There are several types of I/C's but this isn't the pace to discuss them. with Water/Methanol injection?
Up to approximately 20 psi boost, water/methanol injection will provide all the density increase/detonation control needed in most applications. Of course, Intercooling and water/methanol injection would provide even greater benefits especially beyond 20 psi boost. Most air-to-air IntercoolerA "radiator for air" that absorbs intake air heat to cool down the hot air charge from the turbo. There are several types of I/C's but this isn't the pace to discuss them.s are only 50-65% efficient. That means for example, that with 11psi boost and its 120°f air charge temperature increase, an IntercoolerA "radiator for air" that absorbs intake air heat to cool down the hot air charge from the turbo. There are several types of I/C's but this isn't the pace to discuss them. reduces the air charge temperature only 60 degrees. Also, an IntercoolerA "radiator for air" that absorbs intake air heat to cool down the hot air charge from the turbo. There are several types of I/C's but this isn't the pace to discuss them. will reduce boost 2 - 4 psi. on average.

3. Why not use a windshield washer pump?
Water/Methanol must be injected at above 50psi to properly atomize. Lower than 50psi causes greatly reduced air charge cooling as the result of larger droplets and their reduced total surface area.


4. Why methanol?
Methanol is a high octane fuel that is extremely resistant to detonation with an excellent cost/benefit ratio. ($1.50 - $2.00 per gallon.) Its high latent heat of vaporization also makes it an excellent air charge cooler which means a denser mixture and more horsepower. Because of these facts, it is a better anti-detonant than ethanol or iso-propanol although they will work in a pinch. It has however only about 60% of the energy content of gasoline by volume so about twice as much is used to make similar power if used as a straight fuel. It is extremely toxic and should be handled with rubber gloves in well ventilated areas only. Care should be taken to avoid skin contact.

5. How much Water/Methanol?
To prevent detonation, the ratio of Water/Methanol to gasoline is roughly 1 to 5 in gasoline applications- 1 to 4 in diesel. In practice, you give it as much water / methanol as it takes to eliminate detonation without quenching combustion. The amount depends on the onset RPM of injection, the octane of the gasoline, fuel/air ratio, cylinder head type, even the weather conditions. Your engine is actually pretty tolerant of extra water vapor, you will know it's too much when the engine misses and loses power.


6. Where can I purchase Methanol?
Methanol can generally be purchased where racing fuels are sold. Also, most gas line dryers like "Heat" are simply Methanol. Suppliers of industrial chemicals can also supply Methanol usually at a higher price than fuel suppliers. If all else fails, most windshield washer fluids are up to 40% Methanol and 58% water. Methanol can be purchased on the web at www.worldwideracingfuels.com and www.hiperfuels.com .


7. How long will a tank (2 qts.) last?
In high boost/high horsepower application, a full blast 1/4 mile run will utilize as much as 1/8 tank. A larger tank should be considered if over 9psi boost is utilized in road racing where a tank can be used in as few as 6 - 2 mile/ full tilt laps. Under normal street use in a 400 HP Mustang, a tank usually lasts about 500 miles. Two reservoirs can be used for 1-gal total capacity if desired.Turbo's use more qty. and usually utilize the existing windshield washer reservoir (over 4 qts. in most cases) or the new 8-gal reservoir upgrade. More will always be used when the system is first installed, less when the novelty wears off.


8. Can I use windshield washer fluid?
Although most contain some glycol and detergent, most windshield washer fluids are up to 50% alcohol (methanol, ethanol, isopropanol) and make an excellent Boost Cooler. Try to find one that indicates "contains methanol".


9. At what boost level do I introduce Water/Methanol?
Centrifugal superchargers/large turbos: Generally, at 50% of peak boost the recommended quantity should be introduced. Positive displacement superchargers/ fast spooling turbos: injection should occur at or near peak boost to avoid combustion quench since peak boost occurs so fast.


10. What ratio of Water/Methanol is recommended?
A 50/50 ratio is recommended. This has been demonstrated to be the best for charge/air cooling, excellent detonation control, and controlling cylinder temperature. This includes diesel applications where water conditions the combustion of the methanol so combustion timing isn't affected.


11. Many recommend Denso Iridium spark plugs in boosted applications. Will these work also with water/methanol injection?
Denso Iridium spark plugs are highly recommended with the Boost Cooler. Iridiums, with their low firing thresholds and intense spark, allow for larger quantities to be injected sooner without misfiring. This allows for more cooling of the intake air. If you have a misfiring problem, nine times out of ten, Iridiums will clear it up.

 

12. Will water/methanol harm my engine?
In theory, at recommended quantities, most of the mixture is evaporated before it hits the combustion chamber. Also, injection only takes place at high boost levels minimizing cylinder wash concerns. Engines that have been torn down after two years of water/methanol usage have shown no wear issues only clean combustion chambers. In fact, water/methanol reduces the probability of engine destroying detonation. Think of it as an insurance policy against detonation.

13. Can the Boost Cooler be applied to naturally aspirated and nitrous engines?
1.Naturally aspirated/high compression engines:
In this application, water/methanol injection allows the use of pump fuel in all but the most extreme situations which effects tremendous cost savings as well as horsepower increases due to air density increase and realized timing potential. The system is activated by a throttle switch so that injection takes place only during high engine loads when needed.

2. NOS engines: With NOS, water/methanol injection allows the use of full timing even with large (250HP+) quantities. Injection is controlled by the same means that controls NOS injection.

3. Naturally aspirated/stock compression: With naturally aspirated engines with less than 10:1 compression, water/methanol is used typically in warm climates to get the intake temps back to 60°f. Benefits include: 10-15 HP increases from air density increases and full timing, Increased gas mileage, and carbon free combustion chambers. Activation is by a throttle switch adjusted for onset engine load. With this application, the nozzle is sized so that no more than 10% of total fuel consumption at peak flywheel HP is injected.

Thank you to http://www.snowperformance.net/ for this info..

 

Had to bring this up again for peeps to understand more...

 

anyone have a kit installed with pic's ;0) i have a kit i got from STS but been to chicken to hook it all up on my own but getting that itch. I understand it will work alot better with a tune but would it hurt it if i dont have a tune for it for a bit?

 

Hi there..

I must admit I don't know much about high performance stuff on vehicles, but I do know about Methanol. I truck the stuff around all the time, its my job in the Albertan Oilfield, It must be handled with care, it gets into your blood line through the skin and your body can never eliminate it, and it damages the liver. Also it burns clear, like the "Shake and Bake" guy in that nascar comedy, you end up on fire and everybody around you is wondering why your running around like a headless chicken. As for brake and gas line antifreeze stuff its Methanol but they also add lubricants and conditioners to not dry up rubbers, it might help or might not for what you want to do with it. Any oilfield service company will have the stuff in stock, by the barrel its just about the same price as regular gas..

 

Are you looking into a water/methanol kit because you have high IAT's or because you need the octane? Because if you don't have the IAT's necessary to burn off the water you could harm the motor.

 

Hey man, do you think it would be a good idea to get rid of the small intercooler and get a pipe fabbed up with alcohol injectors installed before the iat sensor to bring the air from the sc to the manifolds?

 

The heat exchanger which is located in front of the car just behind the bumper is actually really good from the factory, holds about 2 pints more coolant than some aftermarket replacements that claim to be better. I'm assuming this is what you are calling the intercooler. The intercooler itself which is below the supercharger is made from garrett I believe, I looked at doing a custom intercooler replacing the factory core stlye and going to laminova cores. Problem I had was the length of the cores and the room for the intercooler was insufficient. Never should anything be admitted into the engine before the sensor, always inject after. Basically it all boils down to :

IAT=Octane. The higher the temps the higher the octane.

 

Reason I wanted to inject before the iat sensor was if I inject after the iat the ecu will still pull timing because its still reading the warmer aircharge after the intercooler (if my theory is wrong please enlighten me). I figure the intercooler system in these cars is too small and insufficient to really cool down the aircharge under heavy load anyway.

 

If you inject nitrous oxide before the IAT or on some cars the MAF was OK to do as long as it was only nitrous and not fuel. Now with water/methanol you have an atomized mist of liquid that can and will coat the sensor possibly giving it an incorrect reading. What you need to be doing is data logging your cars IAT values during runs or under severe loads where you "believe" it to be pulling timing and verify first hand that it is indeed doing that at a certain IAT temp. It does pull timing but the question is at what temp and by how much. Coating the sensor is just bad news and creates for to many variables. Use a dashkawk or some other stlye of datalogger that will give you KR,IAT,Timing Retard, and Actual Timing. You can also put resistors on the signal wire going out to the ecu to condition the signal back to the ecu.

 

Wrong. Where did you pull that conclusion from? Cylinder temps are far beyond the vaporization points for either water or alcohol. How could you possibly harm the motor even with sub-zero IATs? You can inject too much and quench the combustion process leading to misfire and if you don't employ failsafes, I suppose even hydrolock is possible. But that's possible with a faulty fuel injector also. Bottom line is that with today's W/M injection systems, properly tuned, it's virtually impossible to harm the motor. They are great safeguards for the motor though!

Wrong. IAT and octane are completely different concepts but if you want to compare their relation to knock, IAT (intake air temperature) is exactly OPPOSITE to Octane. Higher octane decreases the predisposition to knock. Higher IAT increases the predisposition to knock.

The post by Mimi05SRT6 is outstanding. All points are right on the money.

 

HI Fellows
I just bought an AIS system for my srt. Rodney at AIS was great to talk to about any questions & he recommends spraying into the cia.
The thing is I was talking about this to a co-worker who is a mechanic & who has been racing superchargers & turbo systems for years, he always uses water/methanol injectioin with great results.
He told me that he used to spray into a roots blower & it worked very well. But that the blower got tight & then siezed, When he took it apart it was bound up right were the spray was introduced.
He feels that the uneven heating & cooling thru the unit was the reason?
So I am undecided on were to introduce it

 

Superchargers can be had for under $750, so if it goes out it's not going to set you back a fortune. I'd spray it through the the supercharger via the CAI and call it a day.

 

I was spraying before the throttle body and my IAT's stayed the same. Granted, I wasn't putting much through the supercharger. It seems the intercooler does a great job of heating the air after the spray cools it. Now I spray into the Y pipe. On short pulls it keeps the IAT's in check. After backing off the IAT's will drop like a rock from the residual effect then bounce back up almost as quick. On long pulls or while racing it helps keep timing from being pulled for much longer. I'm spraying 5 gpm at 15 PSI. The octane gained is really very little. With a huge nozzle the water meth is only about 4% of the fuel being consumed so that 116 octane meth is a small portion of the fuel ingested.

Les

 

I am thinking I will do a lot of date logging before I install my dual injector set up. I need to understand what I have before bringing the meth into play. Right now I am thinking of injecting into the tubes of the intakes on each side and moving the AIT sensor to the side of the driver's side intake manifold. That way I won't be injecting directly onto the sensor....getting a cleaner read. I need to run this by Rudy but that is where I am now. I just haven't had the time to finish wiring up the dashdaq/zeitronix...

 

thanks for the feed back
I called Rodney at AIS again & he assured
me that they have been spraying into the
supercharger since 2006 & never had an issue.
I am waiting for my NW stage1 & 2 to arrive
might try the spray first & see if it makes any
diff stock. going to do the tune last

 

After installing my injection system (AEM) we put the car on the dyno and started at 8PSI and full blast at 20 PSI. We lost some HP so we started dialing it down until the power returned. We ended up starting to spray at 10 PSI and on full at 30 PSI, which is to say it never reached full blast. This was spraying before the throttle body. The boost increased about .5 PSI spraying through the supercharger. Next I moved the nozzle to the Y pipe. No noticeable change. After the header instal the car wanted more injected. We upped the meth content and set it to begin at 8PSI and full blast at 15 PSI and gained a few HP. I'm still running the same tune. Just my experiences and observations for what it's worth.

Les

 

Hi Les
How did you get your boost signal to trigger your aem system? Did you use the Sensor came with the kit And just take it off the manifold
Or did you get a signal from the dasdaq zetronics set up
Thanks
Barry

 

A bung was welded onto one of the intake manifolds.

Les

 

Thanks Les