Mystery no start issue
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Long Beach, NY.
Re: Mystery no start issue
I just made this edit to my original post so you guys dont have to answer the same questions 300 times. I no longer own my Crossfire, but Crossbow was a huge help.
***EDIT - PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE THREAD. THE PROBLEM WAS SOLVED BY REPLACING THE RELAY CONTROL MODULE.***
***EDIT - PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE THREAD. THE PROBLEM WAS SOLVED BY REPLACING THE RELAY CONTROL MODULE.***
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2
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Re: Mystery no start issue
Thank you guys so much for the post. Ive had my 04' for about 3 years now and my mystery no start problem first surfaced about a year ago in the spring. Happened only once and started after a while of waiting. Later that summer it happened again but went away after a while so I forgot about it. That was until Tuesday when I was taking the boss home after a golf outing, shut the car off in his driveway and get out and shortly get back in to move my car so his daughter can leave and SURPRISE mystery no start. I was embarrassed but explained that this problem had happened before long ago and that it would start again soon when it cooled off. After practically blowing on it myself to cool the engine off it started and I was on my way home to pack for our business trip the next day until SURPRISE it dies in the middle of rush hour traffic. After letting it cool off and getting it started again I made it 7 miles until it died once again and I called a tow truck and parked it in front of my house. Being out of town and mechanically inclined I called my dad (a car aficionado) to brain storm what to tell the shop to replace since I didn't want to take it to a shop with a my car wont start problem which is basically a blank check to run up more in repairs than the car is worth. My dad suggested I look for a crossfire forum (dads are good in duh moments like that) to see if anyone else has had the problem and maybe its something that I can fix myself because he was able to do that with his 73' Detomaso Pantera and his 78' 280-Z when he had problems. After finding this post I will now fly home tomorrow and solder the connections myself! Thank you for all of the help!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 129
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From: St. Louis Park, MN
Re: Mystery no start issue
It's been almost a year since I had the relay module replaced to fix the "Mystery no start issue". As I mentioned in an earlier post, the dealer would not replace it because they were not sure it was the real problem, so based on this thread, I had a friend that works at a shop replace it for me and I have not had a problem since.
Joined: Mar 2009
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Re: Mystery no start issue
Just to update my previous post I returned home and worked the fix on my XF myself and shes running like the first day that I bought her! I pulled out the relay module (its in the box on the passenger side next to the battery) removed the 5 harnesses that were connected and pulled out the module. The board with the bad connections is underneath the fuses in the black casing so remove the black case around the board. The connections that have to be repaired are the smaller ones at the top of the board (I think there is a picture earlier in the thread) and they were cracked and needed to be re flowed. If you have the knowledge and tools to make this happen its a fairly easy fix and took me around 20 min to accomplish. Thanks again to everyone for the post because I was able to fix my XF for pennies as opposed to $250 for a new part or a few grand to take it to a shop and have them needlessly replace parts until they got it right.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 168
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From: Atlanta
Re: Mystery no start issue
Originally Posted by Crossbow39
It is the fuel pump relay. We had the same problem...sometimes start every time for days, then a no start, wait a while and then starts just fine. No rhyme or reason; dealer could not find anything wrong and no codes so take it back home and hold your breath. Then the no starting increased in frequency in addition to the car stalling out while driving on the highway (nothing like losing all power without warning and coasting down at 60 mph+)! It was completely unsafe and untrustworthy...you never knew when it would work or not.
After talking with Mercedes owners and checking the Mercedes bulletin boards (type in "fuel pump relay" and read all their posts and problems!) I replaced the fuel pump relay and the problem has not happened again. We now have @ 91,000 miles on the car and the relay was replaced at @ 43,000 miles.
Evidently, the soldered contacts on the printed circuit board that control the fuel pump begin to fail and corrode over time. When the contact is broken, the fuel pump shuts off, and the car will not turn over or crank. You still have all your lights, gauges, and fan...so it is not a battery problem like everyone's first instinct. The computer is not receiving a signal from the fuel pump, so it will not crank the starter (part of the anti theft I believe). Plus, the computer sets no code because it is working like it should...the pump is not running so no crank is needed! Meanwhile, you are sitting there feeling quite "frustrated".
The contacts get pitted/eroded so the circuit is broken, usually at first as the heat rises after driving it a ways: that is why it usually starts at home, but strands you somewhere else. When the circuit board cool down, the metal solder shrinks, contact is made, and the car starts. What is bad is it will continue to get worse. Everytime the contact breaks , the spark erodes a little bit more of the solder joint and your problems will happen more and more often...and still no codes will be set in the computer.
The relay costs about $150 at Mercedes (I bought it there rather than Chrysler) and my part number was A 170 545 03 05. You need to replace the whole relay and not just the fuses on top, because the circuit board is inside the box (after replacing we took apart my old relay and you could see the burned and pitted solder joints...but only with a jeweler's loupe...that's how small we are talking about). It only takes about 15 minutes to replace. It is located up by the battery in the main fuse/relay box. This relay has the big orange 40 amp Maxifuse, one 20 amp yellow and four blue 15 amp regular fuses on top of it and also 4 (I think) harness connectors that plug in into the top of it. You undo the harnesses, switch in the new box and that is it. Easy enough to do on the side of the road if you have the part.
Sorry for the long post, but I understand the frustration from this happening and no one finding anything wrong with it or acting like you are doing something wrong in starting the car. Like I said, check out the Mercedes boards for fuel pump relay, then go get a new one. Best $150 bucks I ever spent.
Crossbow39
After talking with Mercedes owners and checking the Mercedes bulletin boards (type in "fuel pump relay" and read all their posts and problems!) I replaced the fuel pump relay and the problem has not happened again. We now have @ 91,000 miles on the car and the relay was replaced at @ 43,000 miles.
Evidently, the soldered contacts on the printed circuit board that control the fuel pump begin to fail and corrode over time. When the contact is broken, the fuel pump shuts off, and the car will not turn over or crank. You still have all your lights, gauges, and fan...so it is not a battery problem like everyone's first instinct. The computer is not receiving a signal from the fuel pump, so it will not crank the starter (part of the anti theft I believe). Plus, the computer sets no code because it is working like it should...the pump is not running so no crank is needed! Meanwhile, you are sitting there feeling quite "frustrated".
The contacts get pitted/eroded so the circuit is broken, usually at first as the heat rises after driving it a ways: that is why it usually starts at home, but strands you somewhere else. When the circuit board cool down, the metal solder shrinks, contact is made, and the car starts. What is bad is it will continue to get worse. Everytime the contact breaks , the spark erodes a little bit more of the solder joint and your problems will happen more and more often...and still no codes will be set in the computer.
The relay costs about $150 at Mercedes (I bought it there rather than Chrysler) and my part number was A 170 545 03 05. You need to replace the whole relay and not just the fuses on top, because the circuit board is inside the box (after replacing we took apart my old relay and you could see the burned and pitted solder joints...but only with a jeweler's loupe...that's how small we are talking about). It only takes about 15 minutes to replace. It is located up by the battery in the main fuse/relay box. This relay has the big orange 40 amp Maxifuse, one 20 amp yellow and four blue 15 amp regular fuses on top of it and also 4 (I think) harness connectors that plug in into the top of it. You undo the harnesses, switch in the new box and that is it. Easy enough to do on the side of the road if you have the part.
Sorry for the long post, but I understand the frustration from this happening and no one finding anything wrong with it or acting like you are doing something wrong in starting the car. Like I said, check out the Mercedes boards for fuel pump relay, then go get a new one. Best $150 bucks I ever spent.
Crossbow39
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 168
Likes: 1
From: Atlanta
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Re: Mystery no start issue
Bought my wife (Brandified) a 2005 Limited for Christmas in December 2008 (as well as signing her up for the forums!). It was a long hard look at several roadsters and always seemed to come back to the allure of the Xfire. She loves it like a second child. Today....I got the call....nearly in tears..."My car won't start!" I get right home, hook up the battery charger, crawl under the knee bolster to check the clutch wiring....blah, blah, blah...all the other things that everyone else has done in the earlier posts, including getting belligerent and utilizing several explitives. THANK YOU FOR THE FORUMS!!!! Didn't take long to find this thread and truly hope that this works....I ordered the part within minutes of reading the final thread. We love our car and have planned several rally trips in and around the Watkins Glen/Ithaca area and would be severely ripped if this happened during one of these events.
Once again, thanks guys and gals!
Once again, thanks guys and gals!
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Deland, Florida
Re: Mystery no start issue
Originally Posted by brandified
Bought my wife (Brandified) a 2005 Limited for Christmas in December 2008 (as well as signing her up for the forums!). It was a long hard look at several roadsters and always seemed to come back to the allure of the Xfire. She loves it like a second child. Today....I got the call....nearly in tears..."My car won't start!" I get right home, hook up the battery charger, crawl under the knee bolster to check the clutch wiring....blah, blah, blah...all the other things that everyone else has done in the earlier posts, including getting belligerent and utilizing several explitives. THANK YOU FOR THE FORUMS!!!! Didn't take long to find this thread and truly hope that this works....I ordered the part within minutes of reading the final thread. We love our car and have planned several rally trips in and around the Watkins Glen/Ithaca area and would be severely ripped if this happened during one of these events.
Once again, thanks guys and gals!
Once again, thanks guys and gals!
I haven't had a problem with the mystery no start since the fuel relay was replaced last Dec......good luck....queen mum
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 9
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Re: Mystery no start issue
Got word that FedEx was at my house before noon and I actually work near the facility. Went over and sat there until the driver from that zone got back just so I could get it in tonite. Piece of friggin cake swapping it out. I hope that does the trick. It only got quirky a few more times since this started but didn't want the risk. I took the old one out of the casing to look at it and I can't really tell what to look for. Has anyone repaired there old unit and what exctly did you do?
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,281
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From: Palm Beach FL
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 63
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From: Los Angeles
Re: Mystery no start issue
I am looking for the Relay Control Module in the service manual and it shows the entire box with Relay fuses. Which one am I supposed to replace.
Originally Posted by BltByKrmn
***EDIT - PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE THREAD. THE PROBLEM WAS SOLVED BY REPLACING THE RELAY CONTROL MODULE.***
I keep seeing threads about this, just how many people have been effected?
Here's my thread about the issue:
Car will not start, help!
The dealer couldn't look at it until a few days later, but when they did, it started 1st try. They scanned the ECU and it wasn't holding any codes. They reset it since the TPS and airbag lights were on for no reason, but they couldn't find anything wrong. I told them to keep it for a few more days and keep trying to start it, it started every single time for them. I haven't had a problem since a month ago when it was at the dealer, but then again it hasn't sat for more than a few days.
I know people keep trying to say this a crank sensor issue, but I really don't think it is. Nor is it an auto/manual issue as both have experienced problems.
From what I've seen here's who's been having this same problem:
BltByKrmn (me)
Extensive
Fenwick223
I keep seeing threads about this, just how many people have been effected?
Here's my thread about the issue:
Car will not start, help!
The dealer couldn't look at it until a few days later, but when they did, it started 1st try. They scanned the ECU and it wasn't holding any codes. They reset it since the TPS and airbag lights were on for no reason, but they couldn't find anything wrong. I told them to keep it for a few more days and keep trying to start it, it started every single time for them. I haven't had a problem since a month ago when it was at the dealer, but then again it hasn't sat for more than a few days.
I know people keep trying to say this a crank sensor issue, but I really don't think it is. Nor is it an auto/manual issue as both have experienced problems.
From what I've seen here's who's been having this same problem:
BltByKrmn (me)
Extensive
Fenwick223
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Re: SOLUTION - Mystery no start issue
How much was the relay control Module?
Originally Posted by Fenwick223
Well, I think that we've finally solved the no start issue with my XF (knock on wood). This problem had been occurring for a couple of months and a few weeks ago the car stalled at a light and wouldn't start. In the end, a local dealer (Koons in Tysons Corner, VA) replaced the Relay Control Module. This module actually contains 4 control modules (including the fuel pump module) but is a single unit. Evidently a very easy fix in the end. You open the rectangular box next to the battery and the module is the part with the 40 amp fuse, 5 or 6 other fuses, and 4 or more connectors. You pop out this entire unit, disconnect all the connectors, pop it back in and close the box. Since I got my XF back on Monday, it's started every time and, maybe it's my imagination, but seems to be running better than ever.
It's a good thing too because on Sunday I found myself going through withdrawals and test driving a used Porsche Boxster S. It was a lot of fun however I couldn't get an extended warranty on it that came close to the one I have for my XF. Since I have a bumper-to-bumper warranty for the next 4 1/2 years on my XF, no way I was going to get stuck with repairs on a Porsche. Anyway, my XF is better looking and much more comfortable. I'm back to driving around with that XF smile on my face!
My thanks go out to all who have helped me work through this issue, most especially Crossbow39.
It's a good thing too because on Sunday I found myself going through withdrawals and test driving a used Porsche Boxster S. It was a lot of fun however I couldn't get an extended warranty on it that came close to the one I have for my XF. Since I have a bumper-to-bumper warranty for the next 4 1/2 years on my XF, no way I was going to get stuck with repairs on a Porsche. Anyway, my XF is better looking and much more comfortable. I'm back to driving around with that XF smile on my face!
My thanks go out to all who have helped me work through this issue, most especially Crossbow39.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 63
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From: Los Angeles
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,535
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From: AZ
Re: Mystery no start issue
Originally Posted by TiamoPhoto
I am looking for the Relay Control Module in the service manual and it shows the entire box with Relay fuses. Which one am I supposed to replace.
TiamoPhoto - yours sounds like a different problem. The RCM failure only prevents the car from starting. It does sound like a relay to the fuel pump or possibly the ignition is going out. To many variables though. If yours is failing to start at times when the car warms up, the change the RCM. It's a good place to start. Check with sowardcustoms on here, I think they are around $180? Maybe less.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 263
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Re: Mystery no start issue
I had this problem too. I have an 05 Crossfire Coupe Limited. Daily driver, 45K miles on it, no problems. Suddenly it doesn't start out of the blue. After a while, I closed the door(had it open the whole time), turned the key and it turned on. I had this happen to me twice and whever I close the door, it turns on. Try that. I know it sounds weird haha.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 26
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From: SoCal
Re: Mystery no start issue
My wife absolutely loves her 2004 Crossfire and was sick when it started to give her problems. Like many of the others, it happened once, then worked fine for a few months. Then it died while doing 60 on the freeway. She pulled over and it started right away. A few months later we went to dinner and when we came out it wouldn't start. We called auto club and when the truck arrived the Crossfire started right up.
Another couple of months and it died on her way to work. It happened again the next day and I spent some time reading what is on this post.
I ordered the new module, took about 4 minutes to replace, and everything has been fine since.
My wife had asked me to "get rid of this thing" when it died on her and now she, once again, loves her Crossfire. Thank you all for sharing on this forum and helping us solve the "mystery no start" issue.
Another couple of months and it died on her way to work. It happened again the next day and I spent some time reading what is on this post.
I ordered the new module, took about 4 minutes to replace, and everything has been fine since.
My wife had asked me to "get rid of this thing" when it died on her and now she, once again, loves her Crossfire. Thank you all for sharing on this forum and helping us solve the "mystery no start" issue.
Last edited by Steven's Toys; 06-22-2009 at 08:12 PM.
Joined: May 2009
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From: Kapolei, HI