Mystery no start issue
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Re: Mystery no start issue
Time to add my .02 cents here, '05 Crossfire Roadster with 27K miles:
1.) Car stops at idle, won't restart for some time.
2.) Car occassionally refuses to start, try 20 minutes later, it starts fine.
3.) Always the same: power to everything but the starter motor.
It's been to the dealer in San Diego 5 times already. They've replaced the "master computer," the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) as they thought that it was the problem because there were no codes being struck.
Wife called again last night sobbing in a dark parking lot as she was trying to get home for work -- car won't start. By the time I got there, it started. We dropped it off on the dealer's porch.
I think I'm going to go directly there, pick the car up, and replace the module myself.
All the symptoms are there!
Thanks again fo the expert advice on this board!
Brian
1.) Car stops at idle, won't restart for some time.
2.) Car occassionally refuses to start, try 20 minutes later, it starts fine.
3.) Always the same: power to everything but the starter motor.
It's been to the dealer in San Diego 5 times already. They've replaced the "master computer," the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) as they thought that it was the problem because there were no codes being struck.
Wife called again last night sobbing in a dark parking lot as she was trying to get home for work -- car won't start. By the time I got there, it started. We dropped it off on the dealer's porch.
I think I'm going to go directly there, pick the car up, and replace the module myself.
All the symptoms are there!
Thanks again fo the expert advice on this board!
Brian
Last edited by Brian K; 08-27-2008 at 07:15 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,535
Likes: 3
From: AZ
Re: Mystery no start issue
Sure sounds like the relay control module. As you seen on this forum the part is cheaper at mercedes benz or online. Be sure to report back that your problem is fixed or not. Helma74 disappeared and didn't post again, that doesn't help someone else having the same issue.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Re: Mystery no start issue
Cruznquick,
Will do for sure!
I just got off the line with the Customer Service rep at the local dealer. I faxed in the cut-and-pasted posts about that module last night. She had them in her hand and passed them around the service department with much interest this morning.
She's going to try to get Chrysler to "comp" the part to me as good will for the mess I've gone through with my dealer for the past few months. (Don't get me started on that again.....=) I also specifically asked to KEEP the old Relay Control Module and give it to me so I can take it home and trouble shoot it. She cannot guarantee this request, as any "comped" parts from Chrysler often neccessitate sending in the old one. Fair enough, I guess. We'll see.
If they do NOT comp the part, I gave explicit instructions to NOT touch the vehicle, I'll be picking it up and I will perform the repair myself.
I'll keep you posted on both Chrysler and the dealer's response.
Hell, they'll be money ahead (in my opinion) if they take care of me, if nothing else because the dealer now knows of a particular problem. Another Crossfire came in with the same problem the day after mine. If they start replacing PCM (Powertrain Control Modules) on every no-start Crossfire without stored codes that come in, it's going to get expensive quick. Not to mention the sourness coming from the customer!
Keep you posted on this........
Brian
Will do for sure!
I just got off the line with the Customer Service rep at the local dealer. I faxed in the cut-and-pasted posts about that module last night. She had them in her hand and passed them around the service department with much interest this morning.
She's going to try to get Chrysler to "comp" the part to me as good will for the mess I've gone through with my dealer for the past few months. (Don't get me started on that again.....=) I also specifically asked to KEEP the old Relay Control Module and give it to me so I can take it home and trouble shoot it. She cannot guarantee this request, as any "comped" parts from Chrysler often neccessitate sending in the old one. Fair enough, I guess. We'll see.
If they do NOT comp the part, I gave explicit instructions to NOT touch the vehicle, I'll be picking it up and I will perform the repair myself.
I'll keep you posted on both Chrysler and the dealer's response.
Hell, they'll be money ahead (in my opinion) if they take care of me, if nothing else because the dealer now knows of a particular problem. Another Crossfire came in with the same problem the day after mine. If they start replacing PCM (Powertrain Control Modules) on every no-start Crossfire without stored codes that come in, it's going to get expensive quick. Not to mention the sourness coming from the customer!
Keep you posted on this........
Brian
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Re: Mystery no start issue
Quick Update: 8-28-08
Just picked up the '05 Crossfire from the San Diego dealer. They very kindly replaced the relay control module as a "customer satisfaction courtesy." I'm pleased, as the car is just out of warranty. The dealer, frankly seemed relieved as well. I think they are sick of seeing our Crossfire. They're just as frustrated as we are (almost.)
Drove it home, and ran some errands. Several opportunities to stop and re-start the vehicle.
Flawless so far!
I requested the old module to take home to troubleshoot. As Chrysler paid for the replacement, the service advisor informed me that she can't release it until she gets permission from Chrysler to dispose of the part. (Since I didn't pay for the new part, I don't have a right to the old one until permission is granted.) Fair enough.
If so, I'll pick it up next week to troubleshoot and report back with some pictures. I'll also be driving the Crossfire and giving it the real test! Being as it got so bad that we couldn't go more than two days without a no-start issue, I think we'll know if this was the "fix" in short order.
Back in a week with a continued report.......................
So far, we're looking good!
Thanks again for all the advice on the board.
Brian
Just picked up the '05 Crossfire from the San Diego dealer. They very kindly replaced the relay control module as a "customer satisfaction courtesy." I'm pleased, as the car is just out of warranty. The dealer, frankly seemed relieved as well. I think they are sick of seeing our Crossfire. They're just as frustrated as we are (almost.)
Drove it home, and ran some errands. Several opportunities to stop and re-start the vehicle.
Flawless so far!
I requested the old module to take home to troubleshoot. As Chrysler paid for the replacement, the service advisor informed me that she can't release it until she gets permission from Chrysler to dispose of the part. (Since I didn't pay for the new part, I don't have a right to the old one until permission is granted.) Fair enough.
If so, I'll pick it up next week to troubleshoot and report back with some pictures. I'll also be driving the Crossfire and giving it the real test! Being as it got so bad that we couldn't go more than two days without a no-start issue, I think we'll know if this was the "fix" in short order.
Back in a week with a continued report.......................
So far, we're looking good!
Thanks again for all the advice on the board.
Brian
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,714
Likes: 74
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Re: Mystery no start issue
Here's the final verdict:
The Relay Control Module WAS indeed the problem. Two weeks now, without a single no-start problem on the '05 Crossfire. This confirms in my mind that sure enough, it was the culprit.
The local dealer has not called me back about releasing the old part. If they do, I'll troubleshoot it and post pictures. If not, I'm signing out with my sincere gratitude and THANKS to everyone on this board who goes to the trouble to post in-depth solutions and offers their help. It's been enormously helpful on this end, and I'm very grateful! (So's the wife!)
Thanks!
Brian
The Relay Control Module WAS indeed the problem. Two weeks now, without a single no-start problem on the '05 Crossfire. This confirms in my mind that sure enough, it was the culprit.
The local dealer has not called me back about releasing the old part. If they do, I'll troubleshoot it and post pictures. If not, I'm signing out with my sincere gratitude and THANKS to everyone on this board who goes to the trouble to post in-depth solutions and offers their help. It's been enormously helpful on this end, and I'm very grateful! (So's the wife!)
Thanks!
Brian
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Re: Mystery no start issue
just had this happen to my wife on friday. she was driving in stop and go on her way to school and the car just died. wouldnt start, all lights come on, etc. so i leave work to go get her/see whats going on. about 25 minute trip. by the time i get there car has finally started. so i give her my truck and i take the car. i have no problems but thanks to this forum i now know what i am going to make the dealer replace. and if it makes any difference mine is a 6-speed
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Re: Mystery no start issue
I've been considering buying a Crossfire. But last weekend I looked at an '05 Limited for under $14,000 with 29,000 miles on it. I see the dealer start it up, (it sounds good) he pulls it out and turns it off. I check it out carefully and then climb in for a test drive. I turn the key and all I get is a little clicking sound. The embarrassed dealer says that the battery is probably bad. I say yea but you just started it up and it didn't sound like a struggling battery. He calls the jumper squad. They put some kind of portable jumping devise on it and tell me to turn the key. Same clicking sound--no start. After 15 minutes of trying he says we just got this in and we'll put a new battery in. I say my wife needs to see it anyway so I'll come back tomorrow. Next day we get in the car and it starts. We do a test drive-- seems good. We get back and I park it and turn off the engine. Then try to start again-- no dice. Now I have to ssy this has really made me concerned about buying an Xfire particularly after reading this thread. My wife will be driving it a lot and I don't want her getting stuck in a dark parking lot (not to mention myself). The dealer says he'll fix it but I doubt his mechanics will know what to fix. This seems to be a pervasive problem and CAN this be fixed reliably and at what cost? If I was to consider buying this car what should I tell the dealer to fix?
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 250
Likes: 1
From: Maryland
Re: Mystery no start issue
Should be covered under the warranty. The cost through Chrysler is around $300 but the same part from MB is around $200. Once the relay control module has been replaced, which anyone can do in less than 10 minutes, the problem is solved.
If I remember correctly someone on one of the MB forums way back when posted close-up pictures of the circuit board in the relay control module to show where the problem was occurring. A search of the XF forums may turn up the link.
If I remember correctly someone on one of the MB forums way back when posted close-up pictures of the circuit board in the relay control module to show where the problem was occurring. A search of the XF forums may turn up the link.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Deland, Florida
Re: Mystery no start issue
Originally Posted by Crossbow39
It is the fuel pump relay. We had the same problem...sometimes start every time for days, then a no start, wait a while and then starts just fine. No rhyme or reason; dealer could not find anything wrong and no codes so take it back home and hold your breath. Then the no starting increased in frequency in addition to the car stalling out while driving on the highway (nothing like losing all power without warning and coasting down at 60 mph+)! It was completely unsafe and untrustworthy...you never knew when it would work or not.
After talking with Mercedes owners and checking the Mercedes bulletin boards (type in "fuel pump relay" and read all their posts and problems!) I replaced the fuel pump relay and the problem has not happened again. We now have @ 91,000 miles on the car and the relay was replaced at @ 43,000 miles.
Evidently, the soldered contacts on the printed circuit board that control the fuel pump begin to fail and corrode over time. When the contact is broken, the fuel pump shuts off, and the car will not turn over or crank. You still have all your lights, gauges, and fan...so it is not a battery problem like everyone's first instinct. The computer is not receiving a signal from the fuel pump, so it will not crank the starter (part of the anti theft I believe). Plus, the computer sets no code because it is working like it should...the pump is not running so no crank is needed! Meanwhile, you are sitting there feeling quite "frustrated".
The contacts get pitted/eroded so the circuit is broken, usually at first as the heat rises after driving it a ways: that is why it usually starts at home, but strands you somewhere else. When the circuit board cool down, the metal solder shrinks, contact is made, and the car starts. What is bad is it will continue to get worse. Everytime the contact breaks , the spark erodes a little bit more of the solder joint and your problems will happen more and more often...and still no codes will be set in the computer.
The relay costs about $150 at Mercedes (I bought it there rather than Chrysler) and my part number was A 170 545 03 05. You need to replace the whole relay and not just the fuses on top, because the circuit board is inside the box (after replacing we took apart my old relay and you could see the burned and pitted solder joints...but only with a jeweler's loupe...that's how small we are talking about). It only takes about 15 minutes to replace. It is located up by the battery in the main fuse/relay box. This relay has the big orange 40 amp Maxifuse, one 20 amp yellow and four blue 15 amp regular fuses on top of it and also 4 (I think) harness connectors that plug in into the top of it. You undo the harnesses, switch in the new box and that is it. Easy enough to do on the side of the road if you have the part.
Sorry for the long post, but I understand the frustration from this happening and no one finding anything wrong with it or acting like you are doing something wrong in starting the car. Like I said, check out the Mercedes boards for fuel pump relay, then go get a new one. Best $150 bucks I ever spent.
Crossbow39
After talking with Mercedes owners and checking the Mercedes bulletin boards (type in "fuel pump relay" and read all their posts and problems!) I replaced the fuel pump relay and the problem has not happened again. We now have @ 91,000 miles on the car and the relay was replaced at @ 43,000 miles.
Evidently, the soldered contacts on the printed circuit board that control the fuel pump begin to fail and corrode over time. When the contact is broken, the fuel pump shuts off, and the car will not turn over or crank. You still have all your lights, gauges, and fan...so it is not a battery problem like everyone's first instinct. The computer is not receiving a signal from the fuel pump, so it will not crank the starter (part of the anti theft I believe). Plus, the computer sets no code because it is working like it should...the pump is not running so no crank is needed! Meanwhile, you are sitting there feeling quite "frustrated".
The contacts get pitted/eroded so the circuit is broken, usually at first as the heat rises after driving it a ways: that is why it usually starts at home, but strands you somewhere else. When the circuit board cool down, the metal solder shrinks, contact is made, and the car starts. What is bad is it will continue to get worse. Everytime the contact breaks , the spark erodes a little bit more of the solder joint and your problems will happen more and more often...and still no codes will be set in the computer.
The relay costs about $150 at Mercedes (I bought it there rather than Chrysler) and my part number was A 170 545 03 05. You need to replace the whole relay and not just the fuses on top, because the circuit board is inside the box (after replacing we took apart my old relay and you could see the burned and pitted solder joints...but only with a jeweler's loupe...that's how small we are talking about). It only takes about 15 minutes to replace. It is located up by the battery in the main fuse/relay box. This relay has the big orange 40 amp Maxifuse, one 20 amp yellow and four blue 15 amp regular fuses on top of it and also 4 (I think) harness connectors that plug in into the top of it. You undo the harnesses, switch in the new box and that is it. Easy enough to do on the side of the road if you have the part.
Sorry for the long post, but I understand the frustration from this happening and no one finding anything wrong with it or acting like you are doing something wrong in starting the car. Like I said, check out the Mercedes boards for fuel pump relay, then go get a new one. Best $150 bucks I ever spent.
Crossbow39
Thanks so much for the information, I took it to service people and they replaced the relay module....have had the car back about 2 weeks and so far has started every time.....thanks again for your post.....queen mum
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: Washington State
Re: Mystery no start issue
I had the "mystery no start" issue happen to me three times. The first time was in the middle of nowhere, sun going down, with a dead cell phone...not happy. I was just driving and it died no reason, no nothing...it started up after about an hour...the local dealer couldn't find any error codes and didn't know what was wrong and told me it was a "fluke"...hmmm...yes...I know I'm a woman...but please...a "fluke"??!?!? I no longer go to that dealer. 4 months later, the second time I was in the middle of a really busy intersection and it just died for no reason...and once again would not start until it seemed like it "timed out" or cooled down or something. My NEW dealer checked BCM and found 2 codes for overvoltage and undervoltage and suspected internal filure of BCM-loss of skim which causes the engine to shut down. They replaced the BCM. One month later, the third and last time (knock on wood) I had the problem, I went to leave work and it wouldn't start. The engine was cold which totally contradicted the other two times when the engine was warm. I waited the usual hour and it started. The dealer once again couldn't read any codes but thought there might be an internal failure of the relay control module and ignition switch. The replaced both and I haven't had the issue since. The way they explained it to me was the ignition switch couldn't "detect" the key in the car and would shut down...I don't know...being a woman I just want to be able to rely on my car and not have it break down in the middle of nowhere...I feel pretty confident they fixed the problem. I'm amazed at how many other xfire owners are having the same problem. BUT...it still doesn't make me want to get rid of my car! LOVE IT! 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: Washington State
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 1
From: Texas Hill Country
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
From: East Tn
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 1
From: Texas Hill Country
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 1
From: Texas Hill Country