Obdii Ecu Information
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From: Charleston, SC
Obdii Ecu Information
This is a great post from the guys over at TunerTools so I decided to copy it from their forum and share the information since we are actively pursuing performance tuning for the Crossfire.
Let's break these posts up into sections and begin with the basics of OBD-II Scan Tools and speak to some of the differences, functionality and benefits.
The term "OBD-II" gets used in several different ways, some accurate and some just as a vague term for anything that connects to that port under the dash. Technically, the term refers to a very specific set of functions and a national standard which was first adopted by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) and since modified and made US Federal Law and as regulated by the EPA. Overview of OBD-II here
The term OBD-II refers specifically to a set of standardized methods, protocols, hardware and data structure for certain very specific data required to be monitored, collected and reported regarding the emissions system of a modern passenger car* as designed for sale within the United States.
Ok, so beginning with Generic OBD-II Scan Tools. This is primarily a discussion of hardware, but will overlap with items 2 & 3 from the list above because "Enhanced Codes" and "Enhanced Functionality" is typically only a difference in the software used with the same piece of hardware.
The hardware we stock that I will put in this "Generic" group first are:
With basic and usually free software, all of these tools will do a nice job of scanning the OBD data in your car, reporting on any trouble codes present and will allow you to reset the check engine light.
Working from the same list, but subsetting on "Generic" OBD-II Scan Tools with Enhanced Codes. Enhanced Codes are additional codes added by the vehicle manufacturer
The Auterra Dyno Scan models are shipped with software which will surface "most" of the Enhanced Powertrain codes for "most" of the most popular vehicles (although NOT including the Crossfire
). List is here for the supported enhanced codes (open and scroll down)
In addition to the generic OBD-II functionality, the CJ4 Scan Tool & labscope ships with and enhanced data package for Chrysler vehicles through 2002 and has additional add on modules which can add both OBD-I and Enhanced data for Nissan and Volkswagen.
The ScanGaugeII is actually an in-car mounted digital gauge which displays all the generic OBD-II data and can surface "some" of the enhanced powertrain data.
The J2534 Pass-Thru tools can typically be used for reflashing the car with OEM Calibrations if you add the OEM software (available by subscription from each OEM)
Additional functionality such as Dyno estimation algorithms, 0-60 time, 1/4 mile time and data logging can be added to any of the Elm327 based tools above with the use of PCMSCAN software by Palmer Performance Engineering
PCMSCAN can also bring in additional channels of data from an AEM 30-4100 UEGO Gauge or Innovate Motorsports wideband AFR meter. This is convenient to merge both AFR data and OBD data into a single log file for analysis and diagnostics.
It should be noted here that the speed of the datastream from an OBD-II system is not always ideal for real time data logging of quickly changing parameters (like rpm) as the OBD system gives priority to managing the engine functions and provides sample refresh rates that are something on the order of 2-5 seconds when monitoring multiple parameters. By restricting the number of parameters you're monitoring, the refresh can be squeezed down to 2-4 samples per second, but this is still relatively 'jerky' when viewing the tach gauge in PCMSCAN. These are limits of the OBD system and not a weakness in the hardware or software.
Ok... there's the nickel tour of OBD-II diagnostics & data logging. On to another topic next.
The term "OBD-II" gets used in several different ways, some accurate and some just as a vague term for anything that connects to that port under the dash. Technically, the term refers to a very specific set of functions and a national standard which was first adopted by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) and since modified and made US Federal Law and as regulated by the EPA. Overview of OBD-II here
The term OBD-II refers specifically to a set of standardized methods, protocols, hardware and data structure for certain very specific data required to be monitored, collected and reported regarding the emissions system of a modern passenger car* as designed for sale within the United States.
* On Board Diagnostic regulations also exist for light pick ups & heavy duty trucks, but there are differences which don't really belong in our thread about tuning the Crossfire 8)
Ok, so I'm getting a bit tiresome here and should abbreviate... the point I wanted to set the context for is that there are several different classes of hardware and associated software which are referred to as "OBD-II" and in the context of "tuning" we will need to be clear about each. Here are my own personal categories and some examples of each:- "Generic" OBD-II Scan Tools
- "Generic" OBD-II Scan Tools with Enhanced Codes
- "Generic" OBD-II Scan Tools with Enhanced Functionality
- Commercial OBD Scan Tools
- SAE J2534 Pass-Thru Devices
- Specialized Tools which utilize the OBD port to access a vehicle computer
Ok, so beginning with Generic OBD-II Scan Tools. This is primarily a discussion of hardware, but will overlap with items 2 & 3 from the list above because "Enhanced Codes" and "Enhanced Functionality" is typically only a difference in the software used with the same piece of hardware.
The hardware we stock that I will put in this "Generic" group first are:
- Elm327 based hardware
- T16 Based Hardware
- Multi-Function + Generic OBD-II Scan Tools
- CJ4 Scan Tool, Lab Scope & Pass-Thru (not J2534)
- Mongoose for GM J2534 Pass-Thru
- Mongoose for Asian & European J2534 Pass-Thru
- Mongoose for Ford J2534 Pass-Thru
- Mongoose for Ford with FEPS J2534 Pass-Thru
- Mongoose for Chrysler J2534 Pass-Thru (not yet released)
- CarDAQ-plus J2534 Pass-Thru
- ScanGauge II - 3 In One
With basic and usually free software, all of these tools will do a nice job of scanning the OBD data in your car, reporting on any trouble codes present and will allow you to reset the check engine light.
Working from the same list, but subsetting on "Generic" OBD-II Scan Tools with Enhanced Codes. Enhanced Codes are additional codes added by the vehicle manufacturer
The Auterra Dyno Scan models are shipped with software which will surface "most" of the Enhanced Powertrain codes for "most" of the most popular vehicles (although NOT including the Crossfire
). List is here for the supported enhanced codes (open and scroll down)In addition to the generic OBD-II functionality, the CJ4 Scan Tool & labscope ships with and enhanced data package for Chrysler vehicles through 2002 and has additional add on modules which can add both OBD-I and Enhanced data for Nissan and Volkswagen.
The ScanGaugeII is actually an in-car mounted digital gauge which displays all the generic OBD-II data and can surface "some" of the enhanced powertrain data.
The J2534 Pass-Thru tools can typically be used for reflashing the car with OEM Calibrations if you add the OEM software (available by subscription from each OEM)
Additional functionality such as Dyno estimation algorithms, 0-60 time, 1/4 mile time and data logging can be added to any of the Elm327 based tools above with the use of PCMSCAN software by Palmer Performance Engineering
PCMSCAN can also bring in additional channels of data from an AEM 30-4100 UEGO Gauge or Innovate Motorsports wideband AFR meter. This is convenient to merge both AFR data and OBD data into a single log file for analysis and diagnostics.
It should be noted here that the speed of the datastream from an OBD-II system is not always ideal for real time data logging of quickly changing parameters (like rpm) as the OBD system gives priority to managing the engine functions and provides sample refresh rates that are something on the order of 2-5 seconds when monitoring multiple parameters. By restricting the number of parameters you're monitoring, the refresh can be squeezed down to 2-4 samples per second, but this is still relatively 'jerky' when viewing the tach gauge in PCMSCAN. These are limits of the OBD system and not a weakness in the hardware or software.
Ok... there's the nickel tour of OBD-II diagnostics & data logging. On to another topic next.
Last edited by HDDP; 07-07-2007 at 03:30 PM.
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
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From: Charleston, SC
Re: Obdii Ecu Information
Here's more on the subject:
Discussion of "basic data logging software" will need to be divided into two types of data:
Beginning with data available through the OBD port, both PCMSCAN and the Auterra Dyno-Scan software will provide monitoring and data logging of OBD-II Generic Data and the Dyno-Scan software will also pick up some of the OEM enhanced sensor data for most Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota & Lexus models (although I don't think the Crossfire is included under "Chrysler" for these discussions).
*** I'll be adding to this post with some of the "All other Data" and some of the limited available tools for merging data from disparate sources. For a quick teaser of more advanced data logging, have a look at the Innovate Motorsports "Modular Tuning System"
- The Data Available from the OBD port
- All other Data
Beginning with data available through the OBD port, both PCMSCAN and the Auterra Dyno-Scan software will provide monitoring and data logging of OBD-II Generic Data and the Dyno-Scan software will also pick up some of the OEM enhanced sensor data for most Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota & Lexus models (although I don't think the Crossfire is included under "Chrysler" for these discussions).
*** I'll be adding to this post with some of the "All other Data" and some of the limited available tools for merging data from disparate sources. For a quick teaser of more advanced data logging, have a look at the Innovate Motorsports "Modular Tuning System"
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
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From: Charleston, SC
Re: Obdii Ecu Information
It's definitely possible with the Drew Technologies CarDAQ interface / pass thru system http://www.drewtech.com/products/cardaq2534.html But I would rather use the piggyback so I can easily adjust the performance parameters to suit the track conditions... After all, it's much easier to click a button to richen-up the FAM or retard the timing, than it is to search through a bunch of data code to change a few numbers then reinstall the code onto a computer chip...
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 434
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From: Cincinnati
Re: Obdii Ecu Information
Originally Posted by minojo
It'll be good if they can sell us a tuner program that we can load through the OBDII port just like the Xcal or Predator that I used to tune my Mustang.
I just traded in a '97 Cougar w/ 4.6 "Mod Motor" and really liked being able to use my Xcal to change/add/remove the ECU tune via the OBD2 port without even opening the hood. Since my new Crossfire is still under warranty I'd like to be able to be able to restore the stock ECU programming if/when the thing requires warranty service at a dealership. I don't want to give 'em ANY excuses to deny warranty claims due to modifications/alterations...
Slim
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 53
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From: Fort Worth, TX.
Re: Obdii Ecu Information
Ok, I have just started to research the SEA-J2534 option of being able to modify any or at least a lot of the ecu settings i.e. rev limit, governor, transmissions shifting patters, fuel trim, timing, etc.
The reason for them being able and making it available is due to the EPA ruling requiring car manufactures to make these abilities available to reduce emissions.
This will be at some point hacked if you will, and allow for us to modify and tune our ECU's to match our new modifications.
This will be awesome once this is achieved.
The reason for them being able and making it available is due to the EPA ruling requiring car manufactures to make these abilities available to reduce emissions.
This will be at some point hacked if you will, and allow for us to modify and tune our ECU's to match our new modifications.
This will be awesome once this is achieved.
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