Twin Turbo News!!!
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
Let's talk packaging.
People say "remote turbo" but in my humble opinion that's a last ditch resort - probably impossible unless you're running a dry sump due to the turbo oil drain issue. Turbos need gravity to let oil flow back to the pan!! Some people have suggested an electric oil pump to scavenge the oil return line, but I wouldn't recommend it. The moment that electric pump fails, your turbo is going to be cooked.
So where in the engine bay can the turbo go? There's definitely a place for an FMIC in the bumper (this car's bumper is huge).
I was looking at the space next to the exhaust manifolds but there is not much room there. Maybe room for a T25. You'd need at least a 50 trim T3 to make 450 SAE hp without turbo inefficiency heating up your IAT.
The other alternative I thought of was to use a large single turbo (Holset HY35 or Garrett T72) and put it in front and to the side of the engine.
Does anyone else have any more ideas about where the turbo could go?
People say "remote turbo" but in my humble opinion that's a last ditch resort - probably impossible unless you're running a dry sump due to the turbo oil drain issue. Turbos need gravity to let oil flow back to the pan!! Some people have suggested an electric oil pump to scavenge the oil return line, but I wouldn't recommend it. The moment that electric pump fails, your turbo is going to be cooked.
So where in the engine bay can the turbo go? There's definitely a place for an FMIC in the bumper (this car's bumper is huge).
I was looking at the space next to the exhaust manifolds but there is not much room there. Maybe room for a T25. You'd need at least a 50 trim T3 to make 450 SAE hp without turbo inefficiency heating up your IAT.
The other alternative I thought of was to use a large single turbo (Holset HY35 or Garrett T72) and put it in front and to the side of the engine.
Does anyone else have any more ideas about where the turbo could go?
Last edited by sonoronos; 12-19-2007 at 04:59 PM.
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
contact JJ at
IAG Performance
1203 Baltimore Blvd.
Westminster MD 21157
Phone: 410-840-3555
he did the slk320 on ebay, so he's a proven tuner
http://www.iagperformance.com/
IAG Performance
1203 Baltimore Blvd.
Westminster MD 21157
Phone: 410-840-3555
he did the slk320 on ebay, so he's a proven tuner
http://www.iagperformance.com/
Last edited by Maxwell; 12-19-2007 at 05:14 PM.
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
Originally Posted by sonoronos
Let's talk packaging.
People say "remote turbo" but in my humble opinion that's a last ditch resort - probably impossible unless you're running a dry sump due to the turbo oil drain issue. Turbos need gravity to let oil flow back to the pan!! Some people have suggested an electric oil pump to scavenge the oil return line, but I wouldn't recommend it. The moment that electric pump fails, your turbo is going to be cooked.
So where in the engine bay can the turbo go? There's definitely a place for an FMIC in the bumper (this car's bumper is huge).
I was looking at the space next to the exhaust manifolds but there is not much room there. Maybe room for a T25. You'd need at least a 50 trim T3 to make 450 SAE hp without turbo inefficiency heating up your IAT.
The other alternative I thought of was to use a large single turbo (Holset HY35 or Garrett T72) and put it in front and to the side of the engine.
Does anyone else have any more ideas about where the turbo could go?
People say "remote turbo" but in my humble opinion that's a last ditch resort - probably impossible unless you're running a dry sump due to the turbo oil drain issue. Turbos need gravity to let oil flow back to the pan!! Some people have suggested an electric oil pump to scavenge the oil return line, but I wouldn't recommend it. The moment that electric pump fails, your turbo is going to be cooked.
So where in the engine bay can the turbo go? There's definitely a place for an FMIC in the bumper (this car's bumper is huge).
I was looking at the space next to the exhaust manifolds but there is not much room there. Maybe room for a T25. You'd need at least a 50 trim T3 to make 450 SAE hp without turbo inefficiency heating up your IAT.
The other alternative I thought of was to use a large single turbo (Holset HY35 or Garrett T72) and put it in front and to the side of the engine.
Does anyone else have any more ideas about where the turbo could go?
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
Originally Posted by Maxwell
going with a remote turbo is a silly idea, for a daily drive, it won't hold up to the abuse of the road, and the extra drag from running longer pipes on the turbo will be substantial, the turbo under the hood has been done on the slk320 so it can be done on the XF
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
Originally Posted by x'ed
It's not silly, there are a ton of fbodies running around with these kits and have been so for a long time.
What would you do for tuning on the xfire PCM though? I don't see there being any tuners available other than mail order tunes and that wouldn't work with something as custom as this. You could run an FMU.... but I don't know if that would work on these engines or not.
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
Originally Posted by tealcamaro55
What would you do for tuning on the xfire PCM though? I don't see there being any tuners available other than mail order tunes and that wouldn't work with something as custom as this. You could run an FMU.... but I don't know if that would work on these engines or not.
otherwise you will have to wire in a stand alone ecu, there is one company in Westminister who has success tuning a Mercedes SLK320 r170 chassis car. I already posted thier number and website. good luck.
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
Originally Posted by tealcamaro55
I'm not that familiar with xfires yet but I can vouche that rear mount setups definitely work. They are a very easy to setup system and are very popular with the fbodies, not only v8's but the 3.8l v6 guys run them too from the modified 2.25 stock piping with great results. From an engineering viewpoint they are not as efficient as front mount setups due to the fact you loose a lot of exhaust velocity/heat with the turbo position that far back, however they do work and the fact that you can realistically build one for under 2k outweighs most its other shortcomings.
Originally Posted by tealcamaro55
What would you do for tuning on the xfire PCM though? I don't see there being any tuners available other than mail order tunes and that wouldn't work with something as custom as this. You could run an FMU.... but I don't know if that would work on these engines or not.
Piggyback ECUs would work for this application also.
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
What about a t3/t4 hybrid. Remember you are dealing with a small light car, the power to weight ratio is pretty good. Also remember that the cyl heads are a 3 valve design 2 intake 1 exhaust. You can put all the air in the chamber you want, but it has to be able to escape. Turbo's need the ability to let the exhaust escape as freely as possible, so a smaller turbo would probably by just right for us.
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
Originally Posted by Shawnkey
What about a t3/t4 hybrid. Remember you are dealing with a small light car, the power to weight ratio is pretty good. Also remember that the cyl heads are a 3 valve design 2 intake 1 exhaust. You can put all the air in the chamber you want, but it has to be able to escape. Turbo's need the ability to let the exhaust escape as freely as possible, so a smaller turbo would probably by just right for us.
I'm a big fan of Holset turbos with 45lb/min compressors
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
Originally Posted by sonoronos
How do they handle oil return flow from the turbo?
FMU would work, but it's definitely not for high boost.
Piggyback ECUs would work for this application also.
FMU would work, but it's definitely not for high boost.
Piggyback ECUs would work for this application also.
I've seen FMU's successfully used on boost applications up to 15psi without any problems. The trick is picking the right ratio FMU. FMU's are safe and easy to set up but don't get you max hp as a PCM fuel trim map would - most Vortech FMU's, for example, are set up to run a bit on the rich side. However If I ever ventured this way I'd probably get an adjustable FMU and a wideband which I think would do the trick....
3.8v6 camaro guys with stock 2.25 piping have had success with running t3/t4 hybrids (with redone exhaust piping of course). And that's a pushrod 1intake/1exhaust valve engine. I'm not familiar with the cam profile of the 3.2 benz engine engine but turbo surge is usually not a problem if you know what you're doing when picking out the right turbo for the job.
Last edited by tealcamaro55; 12-20-2007 at 07:52 PM.
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
let me start off by saying WOW!!!! lol I came onto this board because i am doing a little research on a crossfire i wish to purchase for my wife.
I saw this thread and let me just say that the member who started this thread has been pulling and bullshiting ALOT of people on ths board lol. I actually meet the guy a year and a half ago. I am not here to rant or make fun. I didnt read every single post but i scanned though the pages and I noticed that people where interested in turbo charging their cars.
I found it interesting that STS was brought up because I would definetly agree that they are a great option to turbo charging a crossfire. The non believers are the ones who havent driven a remote mount turbo vehicle. I have a very close friend that works in sales and he has told me that he has sold 2 universal kits to crossfire owners...i wonder how that is going?
Looks like i might need to buy me a crossfire and pave the way for the guys and gals who are afriad to step into unmarked territry because thats exactly what it seems to be right now.
I saw this thread and let me just say that the member who started this thread has been pulling and bullshiting ALOT of people on ths board lol. I actually meet the guy a year and a half ago. I am not here to rant or make fun. I didnt read every single post but i scanned though the pages and I noticed that people where interested in turbo charging their cars.
I found it interesting that STS was brought up because I would definetly agree that they are a great option to turbo charging a crossfire. The non believers are the ones who havent driven a remote mount turbo vehicle. I have a very close friend that works in sales and he has told me that he has sold 2 universal kits to crossfire owners...i wonder how that is going?
Looks like i might need to buy me a crossfire and pave the way for the guys and gals who are afriad to step into unmarked territry because thats exactly what it seems to be right now.
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
Originally Posted by sub zero
let me start off by saying WOW!!!! lol I came onto this board because i am doing a little research on a crossfire i wish to purchase for my wife.
I saw this thread and let me just say that the member who started this thread has been pulling and bullshiting ALOT of people on ths board lol. I actually meet the guy a year and a half ago. I am not here to rant or make fun. I didnt read every single post but i scanned though the pages and I noticed that people where interested in turbo charging their cars.
I found it interesting that STS was brought up because I would definetly agree that they are a great option to turbo charging a crossfire. The non believers are the ones who havent driven a remote mount turbo vehicle. I have a very close friend that works in sales and he has told me that he has sold 2 universal kits to crossfire owners...i wonder how that is going?
Looks like i might need to buy me a crossfire and pave the way for the guys and gals who are afriad to step into unmarked territry because thats exactly what it seems to be right now.
I saw this thread and let me just say that the member who started this thread has been pulling and bullshiting ALOT of people on ths board lol. I actually meet the guy a year and a half ago. I am not here to rant or make fun. I didnt read every single post but i scanned though the pages and I noticed that people where interested in turbo charging their cars.
I found it interesting that STS was brought up because I would definetly agree that they are a great option to turbo charging a crossfire. The non believers are the ones who havent driven a remote mount turbo vehicle. I have a very close friend that works in sales and he has told me that he has sold 2 universal kits to crossfire owners...i wonder how that is going?
Looks like i might need to buy me a crossfire and pave the way for the guys and gals who are afriad to step into unmarked territry because thats exactly what it seems to be right now.
I'm just waiting to see if LantanaTX can unlock his v8 mercedes ecu, for the v8 swap, then if that works I will just drop in the srt6 ecu and slowly start to fab up the other parts.
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
Originally Posted by sub zero
I saw this thread and let me just say that the member who started this thread has been pulling and bullshiting ALOT of people on ths board lol
Originally Posted by sub zero
The non believers are the ones who havent driven a remote mount turbo vehicle.
Originally Posted by sub zero
Looks like i might need to buy me a crossfire and pave the way for the guys and gals who are afriad to step into unmarked territry because thats exactly what it seems to be right now.
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
This post is getting out of control, lets re-group and focus.
The T3/T4 should be fine, and surging shouldn't be a problem. The only hard part of this is going to be exhaust manifolds, and getting them made to fit a single or twin turbos. I don't se what the problem is with the oil feed, and drain is.
The T3/T4 should be fine, and surging shouldn't be a problem. The only hard part of this is going to be exhaust manifolds, and getting them made to fit a single or twin turbos. I don't se what the problem is with the oil feed, and drain is.
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
Originally Posted by Shawnkey
This post is getting out of control, lets re-group and focus.
The T3/T4 should be fine, and surging shouldn't be a problem. The only hard part of this is going to be exhaust manifolds, and getting them made to fit a single or twin turbos. I don't se what the problem is with the oil feed, and drain is.
The T3/T4 should be fine, and surging shouldn't be a problem. The only hard part of this is going to be exhaust manifolds, and getting them made to fit a single or twin turbos. I don't se what the problem is with the oil feed, and drain is.
Re: Twin Turbo News!!!
Don't be offended, but have you seen a crossfire in the air. There is not a place to mount a turbo, without risking serious damage to the $900 hunk of metal you mounted down there, or hacking a hole so you can mount it in your trunk. No offense again, but Cheap, and correct are two words that can't be used in this topic. I would recomend purchasinf the oem s/c and manifolds and going that route. That would be cheaper than what this project is going to be, and it would be more feasible. However, if you want the "show" of a turbo then go ahead, but your gonna need deep pockets, and several people with deep knowledge of CUSTOM turbo building. Just to let you know, I am fairly decent with turbo builds, myself and my brother-in-law just finished putting a holstet diesel turbo in a 420a 95 dodge avenger, trust me it's not a kit, and it wasn't cheap either.