HPDE @ Nashville Superspeedway
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From: Murfreesboro, TN
HPDE @ Nashville Superspeedway
Yesterday, I attended a High-Performance Driving Event (HPDE) hosted by Tracks Unlimited.
Oct 15, 2011: Nashville Superspeedway (all makes) | TracksUnlimited
I entered as a novice, as it's better to enter humble and get promoted, than to enter cocky and get demoted.
They assigned an instructor to me and the three different goups run separately. My instructor drove his wicked Porsche during the Red (advanced) runs.
I learned a LOT about my Crossfire's handling yesterday. I learned that, even with their limitations, the stock brakes are no joke. It's all about how long you brake versus how early you brake. Many people made the mistake of applying too little pressure for too long, which cooks the brakes more than a decisive jab for a much shorter distance. Hard on the brakes, turn, shoot out was the name of the game yesterday. 2nd gear was too low for much of the infield, I was breaking traction and had to shift to 3rd before I hit turn 4. 3rd gear through the corners was too high, as the engine dipped down to 3K and I had to rely on smooth lines and momentum to alleviate that. Shifting mid-corner caused the line to suffer...
I went out there with the remaining 4/32" on my front Contis and the new BFG KDW rear tires. To my surprise, the Contis continued to grip decently. Each session allowed ~10 laps, and by the sixth lap of each session, the tires would definitely lose grip and start to feel oily. Nashville's road course is a fairly slippery track to begin with... this ultimately helped me as my car is set up so that the suspension alleviates the lack of power. NSS was a perfect track for the Crossfire because it is VERY technical, and the infield section is only punctuated by a brief backstretch. I found that upon exiting turn 5, I could leave the car in 3rd all the way until I hit turn six, which was perfect because I was right at redline and I didn't have to shift when I jumped hard on the brakes. The final chicane section was my favorite -- it was fast, had some elevation change, and I just felt comfy.
Front stretch was both frustrating and encouraging. I had to point by a lot of faster traffic that would point ME by in the corners, but I learned that, with a good exit from the last turn, I could manage 120mph at the end of the front straight. Not shabby for a Limited. It was comical though because as soon as I came out of the last turn, I would waste no time in pointing by the cars with double the horsepower. I tried pointing an S2000 by me on the straight, though, and he *barely* had the grunt to do it. I literally had to back completely off the gas. Once we hit the corners 1-2, I never saw him again. Phenomenal driver.
Turn 1-2 was a PITA, as you had to slow from 120 to ~90 for a gradual left-hander, back on the gas, immediately followed by a SHARP ~20mph left-hander. That was the brake cooker that sent many folks home early. Two Bimmers boiled their factory fluid, and had to quit early. One hero in an M3 came in with rotors so hot they were literally blue...
Halfway through the day, the instructor told me I was a 'natural' at it and spoke to the administrator of the event after heat 3, and got me promoted to the intermediate group. One of the admins, Sharif (owner of Forged Performance in Atlanta) told me that they only do that for one/two folks per event, so I should feel proud. They sent me out a fourth time with a check-driver and he embellished my first instructor's sentiments. Highlight of that run (the whole day, actually) was when he said "when is that yellow Z06 going to point you by?"
Heats 5 and 6 were by myself, no instructor along, and the loss of 200 pounds was immediately felt.
By the end of the day, the brakes were still performing like champs (even though I learned that Akebono pads are NOT track pads) and nothing broke. My Conti's have finally bit the dust... I'll likely replace them with BFG's just to have a set that matches the rear.
The Crossfire drew a lot of attention. I had to explain the Mercedes motor "swap" (LOL) to roughly ten different folks. Many said "it's too pretty to race". One guy had never given them much thought, but after seeing how they handled themselves in the corners, and considering that the Limiteds can be had for $10K, he said it would be his next daily driver. That guy was the owner of the yellow C6 Z06 I was pushing through the corners.
I highly recommend Tracks Unlimited as a great way to learn your car's limits. My car did things yesterday that I never knew it could do, and it's because I felt safe pushing the limits yesterday with no fear of cops or oncoming traffic. Without a road course, I would have never known what it was like to bark the tires downshifting into fourth while braking from 120mph to 95mph, all while turning left
After yesterday's event, I can clearly say I learned a LOT and looking back on the Dragon, I wasn't putting the car nearly as close to its limits as I had first thought.
These babies continue to impress.
Oct 15, 2011: Nashville Superspeedway (all makes) | TracksUnlimited
I entered as a novice, as it's better to enter humble and get promoted, than to enter cocky and get demoted.
They assigned an instructor to me and the three different goups run separately. My instructor drove his wicked Porsche during the Red (advanced) runs.
I learned a LOT about my Crossfire's handling yesterday. I learned that, even with their limitations, the stock brakes are no joke. It's all about how long you brake versus how early you brake. Many people made the mistake of applying too little pressure for too long, which cooks the brakes more than a decisive jab for a much shorter distance. Hard on the brakes, turn, shoot out was the name of the game yesterday. 2nd gear was too low for much of the infield, I was breaking traction and had to shift to 3rd before I hit turn 4. 3rd gear through the corners was too high, as the engine dipped down to 3K and I had to rely on smooth lines and momentum to alleviate that. Shifting mid-corner caused the line to suffer...
I went out there with the remaining 4/32" on my front Contis and the new BFG KDW rear tires. To my surprise, the Contis continued to grip decently. Each session allowed ~10 laps, and by the sixth lap of each session, the tires would definitely lose grip and start to feel oily. Nashville's road course is a fairly slippery track to begin with... this ultimately helped me as my car is set up so that the suspension alleviates the lack of power. NSS was a perfect track for the Crossfire because it is VERY technical, and the infield section is only punctuated by a brief backstretch. I found that upon exiting turn 5, I could leave the car in 3rd all the way until I hit turn six, which was perfect because I was right at redline and I didn't have to shift when I jumped hard on the brakes. The final chicane section was my favorite -- it was fast, had some elevation change, and I just felt comfy.
Front stretch was both frustrating and encouraging. I had to point by a lot of faster traffic that would point ME by in the corners, but I learned that, with a good exit from the last turn, I could manage 120mph at the end of the front straight. Not shabby for a Limited. It was comical though because as soon as I came out of the last turn, I would waste no time in pointing by the cars with double the horsepower. I tried pointing an S2000 by me on the straight, though, and he *barely* had the grunt to do it. I literally had to back completely off the gas. Once we hit the corners 1-2, I never saw him again. Phenomenal driver.
Turn 1-2 was a PITA, as you had to slow from 120 to ~90 for a gradual left-hander, back on the gas, immediately followed by a SHARP ~20mph left-hander. That was the brake cooker that sent many folks home early. Two Bimmers boiled their factory fluid, and had to quit early. One hero in an M3 came in with rotors so hot they were literally blue...
Halfway through the day, the instructor told me I was a 'natural' at it and spoke to the administrator of the event after heat 3, and got me promoted to the intermediate group. One of the admins, Sharif (owner of Forged Performance in Atlanta) told me that they only do that for one/two folks per event, so I should feel proud. They sent me out a fourth time with a check-driver and he embellished my first instructor's sentiments. Highlight of that run (the whole day, actually) was when he said "when is that yellow Z06 going to point you by?"
Heats 5 and 6 were by myself, no instructor along, and the loss of 200 pounds was immediately felt.
By the end of the day, the brakes were still performing like champs (even though I learned that Akebono pads are NOT track pads) and nothing broke. My Conti's have finally bit the dust... I'll likely replace them with BFG's just to have a set that matches the rear.
The Crossfire drew a lot of attention. I had to explain the Mercedes motor "swap" (LOL) to roughly ten different folks. Many said "it's too pretty to race". One guy had never given them much thought, but after seeing how they handled themselves in the corners, and considering that the Limiteds can be had for $10K, he said it would be his next daily driver. That guy was the owner of the yellow C6 Z06 I was pushing through the corners.
I highly recommend Tracks Unlimited as a great way to learn your car's limits. My car did things yesterday that I never knew it could do, and it's because I felt safe pushing the limits yesterday with no fear of cops or oncoming traffic. Without a road course, I would have never known what it was like to bark the tires downshifting into fourth while braking from 120mph to 95mph, all while turning left
After yesterday's event, I can clearly say I learned a LOT and looking back on the Dragon, I wasn't putting the car nearly as close to its limits as I had first thought.
These babies continue to impress.
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Ontario
Re: HPDE @ Nashville Superspeedway
Originally Posted by JHM2K
Yesterday, I attended a High-Performance Driving Event (HPDE) hosted by Tracks Unlimited.
Oct 15, 2011: Nashville Superspeedway (all makes) | TracksUnlimited
I entered as a novice, as it's better to enter humble and get promoted, than to enter cocky and get demoted.
They assigned an instructor to me and the three different goups run separately. My instructor drove his wicked Porsche during the Red (advanced) runs.
I learned a LOT about my Crossfire's handling yesterday. I learned that, even with their limitations, the stock brakes are no joke. It's all about how long you brake versus how early you brake. Many people made the mistake of applying too little pressure for too long, which cooks the brakes more than a decisive jab for a much shorter distance. Hard on the brakes, turn, shoot out was the name of the game yesterday. 2nd gear was too low for much of the infield, I was breaking traction and had to shift to 3rd before I hit turn 4. 3rd gear through the corners was too high, as the engine dipped down to 3K and I had to rely on smooth lines and momentum to alleviate that. Shifting mid-corner caused the line to suffer...
I went out there with the remaining 4/32" on my front Contis and the new BFG KDW rear tires. To my surprise, the Contis continued to grip decently. Each session allowed ~10 laps, and by the sixth lap of each session, the tires would definitely lose grip and start to feel oily. Nashville's road course is a fairly slippery track to begin with... this ultimately helped me as my car is set up so that the suspension alleviates the lack of power. NSS was a perfect track for the Crossfire because it is VERY technical, and the infield section is only punctuated by a brief backstretch. I found that upon exiting turn 5, I could leave the car in 3rd all the way until I hit turn six, which was perfect because I was right at redline and I didn't have to shift when I jumped hard on the brakes. The final chicane section was my favorite -- it was fast, had some elevation change, and I just felt comfy.
Front stretch was both frustrating and encouraging. I had to point by a lot of faster traffic that would point ME by in the corners, but I learned that, with a good exit from the last turn, I could manage 120mph at the end of the front straight. Not shabby for a Limited. It was comical though because as soon as I came out of the last turn, I would waste no time in pointing by the cars with double the horsepower. I tried pointing an S2000 by me on the straight, though, and he *barely* had the grunt to do it. I literally had to back completely off the gas. Once we hit the corners 1-2, I never saw him again. Phenomenal driver.
Turn 1-2 was a PITA, as you had to slow from 120 to ~90 for a gradual left-hander, back on the gas, immediately followed by a SHARP ~20mph left-hander. That was the brake cooker that sent many folks home early. Two Bimmers boiled their factory fluid, and had to quit early. One hero in an M3 came in with rotors so hot they were literally blue...
Halfway through the day, the instructor told me I was a 'natural' at it and spoke to the administrator of the event after heat 3, and got me promoted to the intermediate group. One of the admins, Sharif (owner of Forged Performance in Atlanta) told me that they only do that for one/two folks per event, so I should feel proud. They sent me out a fourth time with a check-driver and he embellished my first instructor's sentiments. Highlight of that run (the whole day, actually) was when he said "when is that yellow Z06 going to point you by?"
Heats 5 and 6 were by myself, no instructor along, and the loss of 200 pounds was immediately felt.
By the end of the day, the brakes were still performing like champs (even though I learned that Akebono pads are NOT track pads) and nothing broke. My Conti's have finally bit the dust... I'll likely replace them with BFG's just to have a set that matches the rear.
The Crossfire drew a lot of attention. I had to explain the Mercedes motor "swap" (LOL) to roughly ten different folks. Many said "it's too pretty to race". One guy had never given them much thought, but after seeing how they handled themselves in the corners, and considering that the Limiteds can be had for $10K, he said it would be his next daily driver. That guy was the owner of the yellow C6 Z06 I was pushing through the corners.
I highly recommend Tracks Unlimited as a great way to learn your car's limits. My car did things yesterday that I never knew it could do, and it's because I felt safe pushing the limits yesterday with no fear of cops or oncoming traffic. Without a road course, I would have never known what it was like to bark the tires downshifting into fourth while braking from 120mph to 95mph, all while turning left
After yesterday's event, I can clearly say I learned a LOT and looking back on the Dragon, I wasn't putting the car nearly as close to its limits as I had first thought.
These babies continue to impress.
Oct 15, 2011: Nashville Superspeedway (all makes) | TracksUnlimited
I entered as a novice, as it's better to enter humble and get promoted, than to enter cocky and get demoted.
They assigned an instructor to me and the three different goups run separately. My instructor drove his wicked Porsche during the Red (advanced) runs.
I learned a LOT about my Crossfire's handling yesterday. I learned that, even with their limitations, the stock brakes are no joke. It's all about how long you brake versus how early you brake. Many people made the mistake of applying too little pressure for too long, which cooks the brakes more than a decisive jab for a much shorter distance. Hard on the brakes, turn, shoot out was the name of the game yesterday. 2nd gear was too low for much of the infield, I was breaking traction and had to shift to 3rd before I hit turn 4. 3rd gear through the corners was too high, as the engine dipped down to 3K and I had to rely on smooth lines and momentum to alleviate that. Shifting mid-corner caused the line to suffer...
I went out there with the remaining 4/32" on my front Contis and the new BFG KDW rear tires. To my surprise, the Contis continued to grip decently. Each session allowed ~10 laps, and by the sixth lap of each session, the tires would definitely lose grip and start to feel oily. Nashville's road course is a fairly slippery track to begin with... this ultimately helped me as my car is set up so that the suspension alleviates the lack of power. NSS was a perfect track for the Crossfire because it is VERY technical, and the infield section is only punctuated by a brief backstretch. I found that upon exiting turn 5, I could leave the car in 3rd all the way until I hit turn six, which was perfect because I was right at redline and I didn't have to shift when I jumped hard on the brakes. The final chicane section was my favorite -- it was fast, had some elevation change, and I just felt comfy.
Front stretch was both frustrating and encouraging. I had to point by a lot of faster traffic that would point ME by in the corners, but I learned that, with a good exit from the last turn, I could manage 120mph at the end of the front straight. Not shabby for a Limited. It was comical though because as soon as I came out of the last turn, I would waste no time in pointing by the cars with double the horsepower. I tried pointing an S2000 by me on the straight, though, and he *barely* had the grunt to do it. I literally had to back completely off the gas. Once we hit the corners 1-2, I never saw him again. Phenomenal driver.
Turn 1-2 was a PITA, as you had to slow from 120 to ~90 for a gradual left-hander, back on the gas, immediately followed by a SHARP ~20mph left-hander. That was the brake cooker that sent many folks home early. Two Bimmers boiled their factory fluid, and had to quit early. One hero in an M3 came in with rotors so hot they were literally blue...
Halfway through the day, the instructor told me I was a 'natural' at it and spoke to the administrator of the event after heat 3, and got me promoted to the intermediate group. One of the admins, Sharif (owner of Forged Performance in Atlanta) told me that they only do that for one/two folks per event, so I should feel proud. They sent me out a fourth time with a check-driver and he embellished my first instructor's sentiments. Highlight of that run (the whole day, actually) was when he said "when is that yellow Z06 going to point you by?"
Heats 5 and 6 were by myself, no instructor along, and the loss of 200 pounds was immediately felt.
By the end of the day, the brakes were still performing like champs (even though I learned that Akebono pads are NOT track pads) and nothing broke. My Conti's have finally bit the dust... I'll likely replace them with BFG's just to have a set that matches the rear.
The Crossfire drew a lot of attention. I had to explain the Mercedes motor "swap" (LOL) to roughly ten different folks. Many said "it's too pretty to race". One guy had never given them much thought, but after seeing how they handled themselves in the corners, and considering that the Limiteds can be had for $10K, he said it would be his next daily driver. That guy was the owner of the yellow C6 Z06 I was pushing through the corners.
I highly recommend Tracks Unlimited as a great way to learn your car's limits. My car did things yesterday that I never knew it could do, and it's because I felt safe pushing the limits yesterday with no fear of cops or oncoming traffic. Without a road course, I would have never known what it was like to bark the tires downshifting into fourth while braking from 120mph to 95mph, all while turning left
After yesterday's event, I can clearly say I learned a LOT and looking back on the Dragon, I wasn't putting the car nearly as close to its limits as I had first thought.
These babies continue to impress.
Now imagine the V8 that's in your future.
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From: Murfreesboro, TN
Re: HPDE @ Nashville Superspeedway
I tried to get wifey to come but she wanted no part of it.
And honestly, I think I'm going to indefinitely shelve the idea of the V-8... Cost-prohibitive, and honestly the power I have now was perfect for the technical portions. It's what allowed me to be tucked neatly behind a Z06... he was spinning, I was sticking and grinning. I will welcome a few more mods to the motor, but I'm one of the few that is interested in seeing how much performance (not necessarily peak HP) I can wring out of the N/A Limited.
Here's a good video of the course. This might help my narrative in the first post make more sense...
[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sNOBC90i58[/MEDIA]
And honestly, I think I'm going to indefinitely shelve the idea of the V-8... Cost-prohibitive, and honestly the power I have now was perfect for the technical portions. It's what allowed me to be tucked neatly behind a Z06... he was spinning, I was sticking and grinning. I will welcome a few more mods to the motor, but I'm one of the few that is interested in seeing how much performance (not necessarily peak HP) I can wring out of the N/A Limited.
Here's a good video of the course. This might help my narrative in the first post make more sense...
[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sNOBC90i58[/MEDIA]
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From: Murfreesboro, TN
Re: HPDE @ Nashville Superspeedway
Originally Posted by 32krazy!
looks like a fantastic time john! if they ever come back to the now closed track count me in for the entire day
And thank Jason! I can definitely apply what I learned at the next dragon... if you have the opportunity to do an event, DO NOT MISS IT!
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From: Puerto Rico
Re: HPDE @ Nashville Superspeedway
Thanks for the longish write up. Thats what I learned myself. There's so much more time to be gained in the braking zones and twistys than horsepower can make up for on the straights. A hard lesson to learn for sure.
In my case I added power first and ran about the same times as stock. It wasn't until after attending a driving school that I started to understand how to get more out of ..... any car actually ... and that a Crossfire has a lot to offer on a track.
Great fun, great people, real safe and legal to have all four tires begging for mercy. Not to mention what a trip it is for the others to get indoctrinated into Crossfires. We're rockstars!
Les
In my case I added power first and ran about the same times as stock. It wasn't until after attending a driving school that I started to understand how to get more out of ..... any car actually ... and that a Crossfire has a lot to offer on a track.
Great fun, great people, real safe and legal to have all four tires begging for mercy. Not to mention what a trip it is for the others to get indoctrinated into Crossfires. We're rockstars!
Les
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From: Lantana, Republic of Texas
Re: HPDE @ Nashville Superspeedway
Really cool John! After being at the at the Dragon, I am bit by the bug and hope they have something coming up at Texas Motor Speedway. Hawk HPS Plus would work good at the track but you wouldn't want to use them on the street.. A good track pad will eat your rotors when they are not up to heat. The MB brakes on my car make pad swaps almost as quick as taking a wheel on and off.
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From: Puerto Rico
Re: HPDE @ Nashville Superspeedway
Higher temperature pads and new brake fluid are musts. Look for a rotor friendly pad if possible. I'm using Carbotech XP10 and they are super at the track, squeal like a pig on the street, dust like crazy but don't eat the rotors. I'm told Ferodo DS2500 are about the best for dual purpose. As you get better you'll need brake ducts for additional cooling. I'm reaching the point that I need them even with my Stoptech BBK. Everyone should go to one of these events at least once. The instructors always think safety first and are attentive to how your car is behaving. Most can drive almost anything and are familiar with FWD, RWD, AWD, automatic, manuel, paddles, high power, low power, understeering, oversteering, etc. Just do it!
Les
Les
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From: Murfreesboro, TN
Re: HPDE @ Nashville Superspeedway
I will soon be running a nice brake upgrade... CL600 calipers with 345mm slotted rotors in the front, with C43 calipers & 300mm slotted rotors in the rear.
This will be a beefy 4-pot/2-pot setup with much larger hats... I'll likely switch to MOTUL RBF-600 instead of my Super-Blue...
Are Stoptech pads good for dual-purpose? I can't get the Hawk HPS in the C32/CL600 fitment... I can get them for the C43 calipers all day long.
Stoptech is the only pad that I can find that will fit both applications. I drive on the track one day to every 300 off the track, so absolute performance year-round is not a must... I love the dust free nature of the Akebonos but I despise their soft pedal feel and propensity to glaze over after a few laps.
Ducts are a consideration, and if I could come up with a sanitary way to route the ducts, I would love to get that done.
I can't stress enough about how much I learned in this event. Friction circles, braking zones, trail braking, the list goes on...
This will be a beefy 4-pot/2-pot setup with much larger hats... I'll likely switch to MOTUL RBF-600 instead of my Super-Blue...
Are Stoptech pads good for dual-purpose? I can't get the Hawk HPS in the C32/CL600 fitment... I can get them for the C43 calipers all day long.
Stoptech is the only pad that I can find that will fit both applications. I drive on the track one day to every 300 off the track, so absolute performance year-round is not a must... I love the dust free nature of the Akebonos but I despise their soft pedal feel and propensity to glaze over after a few laps.
Ducts are a consideration, and if I could come up with a sanitary way to route the ducts, I would love to get that done.
I can't stress enough about how much I learned in this event. Friction circles, braking zones, trail braking, the list goes on...
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From: Puerto Rico
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From: Murfreesboro, TN
Re: HPDE @ Nashville Superspeedway
Originally Posted by velociabstract
Mr. Photoman ran them and loved them for the street and track but IMO it would depend on the track and how aggressively you use your brakes. This early in the HPDE game they should be enough. Later on ......
Les
Les
My next HPDE will likely be Road Atlanta, early next year. They're doing a December run at Atlanta Motorsports park but I won't be driving through sleet to go race...
They said RA was an EXPENSIVE track to rent, so they still have to gauge interest. I'll communicate with Mark West and see if they intend to hit Talladega Grand-Prix Raceway... It's a fast-tempo moto-GP track with no walls and more curves than straights... my kind of track
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From: Houston in my blood, and under my tires...
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From: Lantana, Republic of Texas
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From: Puerto Rico
Re: HPDE @ Nashville Superspeedway
Your going to have a blast Lantana. It's serious fun. All the instructors I've had have been good, but every now and then you get, how to say this, one with fire and ice in his veins. They're going to loose their eyes when they see what's under the hood too.
Les
Les
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From: Lantana, Republic of Texas
Re: HPDE @ Nashville Superspeedway
Originally Posted by velociabstract
Your going to have a blast Lantana. It's serious fun. All the instructors I've had have been good, but every now and then you get, how to say this, one with fire and ice in his veins. They're going to loose their eyes when they see what's under the hood too.
Les
Les
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Ontario
Re: HPDE @ Nashville Superspeedway
To understand what John was talking about, I did a search and found this, http://www.drivingfast.net/technique...#axzz1b3In0MLT
Nothing new to the pros here, but a good insight to race track techniques to the Sunday drivers like myself.
Nothing new to the pros here, but a good insight to race track techniques to the Sunday drivers like myself.