My previous supplier is so busy selling grills on eBay, using my photos copied from my website, that he isn't even willing to fill the two outstanding orders I have. So, I will be issuing them refunds and closing Crossfire Grills. I want to thank all who have ordered and supported my efforts.

Every person I dealt with was very patient and reasonable and I have met some very nice new friends as a result of this venture. I will of course be around on the Forum.

 

wow, that blows....are you going to pursue any legal action?

 

No, life is too short. I have other things to do with my time. Don't think it would be worth the time and effort. This was more of a "hobby business" for me, something to do that I thought was worthwhile because the grills were wanted and something that I enjoyed. I have filed a complaint with eBay but have not heard anything from them. Likely they will do nothing since this vendor sells lots of truck suspension items on eBay. By the way, Gator, I grew up in West Palm Beach.

 

Holy freaking crap. Ugh. This sucks man sorry.

 

I for one am sorry to hear this!

I do appreciate you taking care of me and others.

I for one am one of those people that will happen to run into the ones that did you wrong...they will be sending a stretcher in for them in the bathroom if you know what I mean!

What comes around goes around...I never forget.

If you are ever local to me let me know...will toss a few and dinner is on me!

By the way I do love the product...even though we are getting 5 inches of snow right now my Dad wants me to turn the heat up in the garage and Lets get'r done ...but alas the cover is on the car...maybe next week.
I will post photos of before, without anything and with the new grill!

Thanks again your product was my xmas present to myself!

 

I am a local Arizona lawyer with decades of practical experience handling commercial litigation from both sides. I was Don's first grille customer, absolutely love the product, and continue to be his most loyal fan and supporter. But this kind of fact-intensive litigation is far from a slam-dunk in Arizona based on the information available to me at this point.

Please remember that if you're looking for equity and justice, then you should go to church. What you get in a court of law is the application of ambiguous statutes written by highly-imperfect politicians to the relevant and material facts that can be proven under the restrictive rules of evidence. A large and well-financed corporate defendant is much more likely to fight than to fold, particularly if it senses a profitable business opportunity, and that makes the litigation process extremely burdensome and time consuming. Two years for a final determinative ruling from a trial court is entirely normal in these circumstances. And that two year period isn't a lot of fun, either, because you're spending your time looking backwards rather than moving forward.

So when Don writes that "life is too short" and "I have other things to do with my time," that conclusion is not necessarily an imprudent evaluation. And RIOT's comment is right on target, too - "What comes around goes around...I never forget." Wise forum members may choose to exercise their judgment not to deal with the "other seller" for good and obvious reasons, but litigation will not bring Don's business back without significant risk and aggravation. That's both unfortunate and wrong, but it is real life...

 

As everyone says, this is a sad situation. I have met and dealt with Don, and he is a great guy, I am sorry to see this happen.

Don, give me a call sometime, still want to have that cup of coffee.

 

I always vote with my dollar!

Just put the word out on these people!

I bet alot of us will vote not to buy from them!

 

I was one of Don's customer who did not get a grill. I'm sorry Don, that we could not finished our transaction, and most bothersome, is this kind of behaviour by others is bulls#$t. That grill would have completed the front end. Thanks for the try Don.

 

@ maxxm

I totally agree. I just feel that for "stolen" Intellectual property it could be easier.

Being a lawyer, answer me this. Does an idea that's put into application constitute as being copyrighted and this would be copyright infringement?

 

No; only the actual, concrete expression of the idea can be copyrighted (or in some circumstances patented), but not the idea itself. Thus, Don's original pictures can be separately copyrighted, but the specific design of the billet grille displayed in those photographs is much more ambiguous factually and is subject to both statutory presumptions involving contracted "works made for hire" (a statutory term) as well as disputed interpretations of the agreements between the parties that are required to be proved by either a preponderance of the evidence or in some cases by clear and convincing evidence, which is not easy to do. That's where the complexities arise, and it's why these kinds of cases often become lengthy, grueling and expensive exercises for all of the involved parties.

 

I'll take a preliminary stab at this and Maxxm can correct or elaborate if he wants. The ownership of the grill design is ambiguous. They had made an effort and I came along and critiqued and guided them as we refined the design. They have violated my copyright by copying my photos from my website and using them to sell the grills. That is going on right now. But, any resolution I would get from that (and it probably would be minimal) would not solve the basic problem that they control the grills and can sell them as they choose.
I do appreciate the thoughtful and objective analysis that I have gotten from Maxxm.

 

One of my real disappointments is that a Marine Sgt. in Iraq saw the grills (after my orders were in and I was trying to fill them) and is coming home and really wanted a grill. I thought I had it worked out through some people there (at the fabricator) so we could get him a grill. Now that won't happen. I felt that he really deserved to have a grill.

 

Don,

I feel for you and this really sucks. Since they didn't respect you why can't you find another supplier and keep selling them here. I bought wholesale at Q & S for many years. They are a huge manufacturer here in Phx. Maybe they will be willing to take on your project. Lately billet grills haven't been as popular for other cars, but they have never been offered before for our cars. A specialty market with over 70,000 cars out there. Heck with the other company, as long as we spread the word not to buy from them. They eventually will move to something that makes more money. I would keep the website up and explain what happen and you are looking for another manufacturer. Heck I even used to buy billet grills in the mid 90's that made them himself in a 300 sq. ft. shop. He was the only one making phantom grills at the time for full size chevy's. Even though it was just a hobby, somethings are better the second time around. Good luck and the next time I make it out to my office in Scottsdale, we'll have to meet for lunch.

Cruzinquick

 

Don,
I went to ebay and found the a-hole that stole your business and typed the following message into the "ask the seller a question" field and then sent it to him.

Message sent:
So why did you screw over Don and take over selling grills directly and stop providing them to him to sell to his customers? I will be spreading the word to all Crossfire owners in the various forums online:

DO NOT BUY THIS PRODUCT FROM YOUR STORE.

I encourage everyone here in our forum to send this ***** a message regarding his poor business ethics.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=370001530328

 

no problemo I won't buy it. it looks nice but I'll pass it up. can I get the dimentions and or prints of the parts? i'll give you royalties if I find a manufactuer to stamp these out cheap.

 

screw that where else would i buy it. no offense but i don't know don and you probably don't either. i am definitely buying a different grill so if there's anywhere else let me know and i'll consider it when i see what it looks like and what the price is.

 

I'm pretty much inactive on the board and truth be told don't know anyone from here. I've never met Don or even talked to Don. That said it will be a cold day in hell long before I purchase anything form some dic*heads that would screw a client like that. As someone who own's a few businesses I would be beyond outraged if a supplier did this to me. I understand that you want a new grill, but how could you give even a cent to someone you know is screwing their clients, and would without hesitation screw you? There are a lot of people in the world that could care less about this companie's dispicable behavior, but I feel that they should be the weirdos that don't get it and not the norm. I think the only way for society to evolve is for us to all adopt the philosophy of help your fellow man, and not the walmart philosophy of if it's cheaper I want it, no matter who it ends up hurting.

Ok that's my rant. I will be donning my flame proof suit as I expect it to be coming my way in short order.

 

I also post ******** ebay user name on a motorcycle forum I'm involved in. wanna make sure as many people as possible know abou this guy.

 

I don't have any drawings of the grill. I have talked to some fabricators in the area but at this point nothing has developed there. I recently learned of someone who might be a good fabricator and will be meeting with him. My preference would be to make some modifications to bring this grill more into line with the "Ideal" we have all wanted. But, we will see.