Bill, glad to hear you are keeping busy and finishing the project. I have to ask given the other project on here. How long have you been working on this project? I remember our 1st encounter, and now use a little patience in my response when this topic comes up, lol. I learned from that. But, patience seems to be being tested in the other build. So, having your build in the mix, knowing how long you worked on yours may be some help. Hope the prayers are working BTW....

 

Web3.0,
Very proud of you. You are a very persistant guy. You are obviously very smart. Well done! Would love to see the car and meet you in person sometime. I can just imagine how great that car runs and feels.

 

I found the wiring issue that was keeping my IC pump from working, but went ahead with going back to the stock ECU. Done!

In the end, having the star das was the thing I was missing previously and having been there done that, I actually think using the NA ECU will be the best thing to do all the way around. It will definitely help other people save money and wiring changes to go the FI route.

So I am now back on the stock NA ECU and cruising just fine. I also made a couple of tweaks, cleaned up some previous wiring boo boos, and got the Star Das working to make the necessary changes. For now, I disable the EGR system because it leaks boost and I have it physically blocked off. However, I have a plan for something to address the issue. The disabled EGRs the only real thing keeping my setup from being technically "legal".

As soon as I find some time, I'll squeeze in some tuning runs and start working with my restrictor to limit top end boost. I want to see what kind of power I can make with a solid 13 psi and map out my game plan from there. Especially now that my flow is what is should be, what reads on my boost gauge should start translating to power closer to my math.

 

The absolute last thing I want to do is start a holy war that gets my thread closed as well but I do have some thoughts to share on the matter. Most importantly, I don’t think it is fair to compare our two builds as far as time is concerned.

First, I work on my project at my own pace with no commitments to anyone else. Second, my investment consists of the parts I buy at a pace that I can absorb. I don’t have the overhead associated with a shop or technician’s wages. Additionally, I am working on my own tuning solution and not looking to buy or pay for a service from someone else which accounts for 90% of my time invested. That is part of the fun and challenge for me. That is also the privilege of my situation versus a speed shop trying to keep the doors open.

That said, I don’t equate the time on the turbo build as much to “complexity” as I do to “economics”. I know they are somewhat the same but I have a feeling that if the price was originally set at $5,000.00 you would have turbo'd crossfires tearing up the streets as we speak.

There is simply not that much money to be made in this market especially at a price point of $3,600.00. My thinking is that if they go through with the build and sell it at that price it will be more because they said they would than because it makes any particular amount of business sense. Thus the part time, squeeze it in when they can build and subsequent lack of progress.

Well Bill, what do you mean by “economics” and not “complexity”?

What I mean is that the building of the rear mounted turbo platform and IC piping is the easy part. Any fab shop worth half its salt could throw something together that will work on this car in fairly short order. Yeah, it’s a little funky, but try it in a mid engine sports car and then we’ll talk pain. It’s everything else you have to deal with that stacks up as a long list of variables to conquering this beast of a platform.

Throw into the mix the response they’ve received so far and it doesn’t bode well for a promising financial return. The list in the other thread shows only 16 that are firm. The last 4 or so are listed as maybe, kinda, sorta. To me that says that my first 20 “discounted” kits could potentially constitute the “market” in total. That is a far cry from cars like the Miata.

Beast?

Well, this car has strict tolerances in so many systems it is comical. Most cars leave something on the table for room to grow whether it is intentional or not but the crossfire is a real bear in this department. Let’s take fuel injectors as an example. There are a couple of ways that “tuners” add fuel for low boost FI kits. One involves adding an RRFPR to increase fuel pressure with boost. The other uses a voltage booster to increase the voltage to the fuel pump. Neither is a very elegant solution and both depend on there being enough headroom to start with in the fuel delivery system. These methods therefore richen the fuel mixture enough to run stock timing without an expensive electronic tuning aid. I personally don’t like this way of “making it work” as I want the ability to tune the vehicle for all conditions. However, it does allow for a cheap and minimally invasive system at low boost levels.

Well, the crossfire kicks this plan in the teeth with its minimalistic injectors and its combo MAF/MAP system. If Corky was depending on this ole add fuel till she gives routine to add boost then that plan most definitely fell on its face right off the bat. The ECU talks to way too many systems to prevent this method of attack. Subsequently, the associated costs go up, up, and up as you consider more complex tuning options. And this is just ONE of the hurdles on the table to overcome.

The next thing they will have to tackle is the EGR system as it presents its own unique set of challenges. First, when activated the ECU has to see a change in the MAP sensor. Second, it leaks boost . Therefore, it is a one part logical, one part a physical issue. Not to mention the “load limit reached” BAS/ESP wall you will hit with part throttle boost that causes the car to fall flat on its face at random rpms. The EGR problem HAS to be tackled or the kit will not be legal in any state. Either that or you will be driving your car around with a CEL after your first couple of short trips.

That said, onto the financial side of things and thus the real challenge. Let’s take a look at one possible price list for a “best in class” turbo with intercooler and tuning:


1,000.00 - Turbo (assuming high end dual ball bearing and dealer discount)
150.00 - External wastegate
100.00 - Hot side plumbing
200.00 - Exhaust solution
400.00 - Tuning solution
150.00 - Oil pump fittings, harness, and hoses
300.00 - Cold side silicone hoses, BOV, check valves, and t-clamps
300.00 - Misc. Brackets and Heat shields
250.00 - Custom intercooler

$2,850.00


Even with discounts based on a moderate to high volume business you still have to account for miscellaneous expenses and overhead that would jack the overall cost back up closer to my number than not. I don’t know Corky’s true cost on anything and these are definitely rough numbers. However, based on this list you can see just how quickly $3,600.00 can disappear along with the associated profits and therefore any incentive to stay the course. Now take into consideration you are looking at selling a whopping 20 units and your development costs inch ever further into your profit margin with every setback and delay. Pretty soon it doesn’t make any sense unless you catch a break and the SLK320’s jump on it big time and make it all worth while. However, those cars are approaching dinosaur status are they not?


Can you say difficult pill to swallow?

 

Good luck I cannot wait to see it! maybe even hear it if videos are posted!! Good luck man