because you live so close to jerry and this would open up a new area for them to market a tune why not consider a collaboration between you and e/c? that way you get the much needed software and knowledge and you still get to tinker. when its done you have the files you want and they have a new market open for them. win win!!

 

Thanks for the reply, I would be very interested in seeing your information as I am currently studying the pcm operational characteristics of the vehicle. I will pm you my email address if you could forward to me. I have already gone through the vehicle wiring and identified differences, I could send the info to you if you desire. I have spent years working with a similar product to the AEM, and deal directly with the manufacturers design and technical group. Swapping the pcm is one potential solution, but I would also like to utilize the stock equipment as well.

The AEM uses the Molex minifit connectors, they are notorious for working loose. Use a gap filling ca glue with an accelerator to glue the pins in on the wire side. I have had the same issues with my Hemi.

 

Good luck with the ECU swap. I started looking at this possibilty for a different reason. The Crossfire sends the start signal from the key into a dedicated pin in the ECU while no V8 with ME 2.8 ever did this. All V8's get the start signal through the CAN. When Rudy did his first 55 Kompressor swap, he discovered a reminent file that allowed him to start from the key. Rudy did a lot of checking and found that file is only in the 55K ECU. As 32Crazy said, Every time I start my car it looks like I am stealing it.

I am betting that if you swap the ECU, you will be able to sell the AEM. But swapping the ECU does open up some new bag or worms but I believe they will be much easier to deal with than the AEM really big bag of worms.

As you know I also intend to boost my engine as well, but starting from the key is very important to me. I had spoken to Jerry at Eurocharged and he thought that using the 55K ECU with a turbo sounded very doable, especially since it had already been done when an SRT (Importlab) went from S/C to Turbo. Jerry thought the 55K ECU would get me in the ball park and he could fine tune from there.

 

Got the SRT-6 ECU in and installed, running into a few issues with getting it to start that we will work out soon enough. There are a few wiring differences that I am going to tackle tomorrow. Additionally, my wife bought me the Star DAS for Christmas. It is on the way and should help iron out the last bit to get her up and running along with Rudy's help. I also have an SRT-6 tranny on the way for when she gets up to her full potential so I don't go burning up the wimpy N/A unit!

I hope to be putting down modded SRT-6 power in the near future!

 

Good luck with everything. I am glad you are trying the SRT ECU. I will be trying the 55K ECU in the near future. It shouldn't start until you have Star DAS hooked up as the ECU has to learn the anti-theft data and you have to have the Star DAS to do that. The best thing about this ECU is getting rid of the MAF! With this ECU you have traded a bunch of problems for a couple of new ones, but the new problems should be easier to deal with than the AEM unit. You will have to fool it into thinking you have an intercooler pump and s/c clutch. The other programming is just proven stuff to swap a ECU. Best of luck and keep us posted.

 

Actually, the best thing about going with the SRT ecu is ditching the EGR. My MAF is already effectively disabled via the AEM. The EGR causes a host of issues when going FI not the least of which is a boost leak under certain conditions. Also, the ecu checks for a change in the map sensor when activated which can be problematic as well.

That said, being the first to go this route that I know of, I've mapped out what I believe are the primary differences as well as a plan for each. I built a spreadsheet with the ecu pin outs, highlighted all concerns and double checked the multiple misprints/errors in our service manuals. Next week I'll confirm in person on the car versus manuals and implement while waiting on the SDS. Once I have each issue squared away 100%, I'll share for others that may go this direction in the future.

Major Differences:

1). No EGR on the SRT - Excellent! I also already have my block off plate from where I had it disabled previously
2). The SRT looks to have an extra wire to the alternator
3). The O2 wiring is reversed between the two
4). No MAF on the SRT but it does require an IAT, I'm using the iat in the maf for now but plan on changing the ground location
5). SC clutch on Srt - I'm going to re-route to another device
6). No intake runner control on the SRT ecu, mine is disabled anyway
7). The SRT triggers a relay to switch on the IC pump - I plan on copying this configuration for my existing IC pump to make the ecu happy
8). Different map sensors - already changed out - will publish the numbers later so they are readily available.
9). I'm already running SRT injectors so no difference there!

Other than that, I should be golden! In fact, the complexity and tuning skill required of my entire system has been reduced 100x. The cost? Well, not so much but I don't see why modded SRT-6 power with the smoothest power delivery in the industry will not be available for the n/a at a very reasonable cost. If I can end up ditching the AEM, Awesome! Again, that is considering my gut feeling that the na's higher compression combined with the rotex's lower IATs and better efficiency = an aggressive srt-6 after market tune. Wouldn't that be the shiznit! I know I'm definitely over simplifying a few complicated factors but it sure would be sweet

 

Don't they share the same auto?

 

No sirree!

NA = NAG1 W5A330 - Constant Torque Rating - 330 NM = 243 ft/lbs
SRT = NAG1 W5A580 - Constant Torque Rating - 580 NM = 428 ft/lbs

= one hell of a difference in practice or theory!

This is why the SRT guys can add as much power as they do along with traction and you don't see their tranny's failing left and right.

It is why I originally went with the blue top solenoids to help save my tranny until I could afford a swap. If you recall, ChuckNorris blew his with less power than I intend to make. The NA tranny is rated barely above what our motor makes stock! I'm convinced the tranny is the weakest link in the NA drive-train and will go way before the NA's forged internals.

In fact, if I had stayed with the NA tranny, I was going to add a temp gauge at the bare minimum to help it live longer. High tranny fluid temp is a KILLER and must be kept under control. This is going to be very important for anyone adding significant power to the W5A330.

 

I have been running the V6 trans behind my V8 for the last 20K miles and all is good. My engine has 330 ft lbs of torque which is more than a SRT. ""knock on wood". I talked to a shop that builds performance Nag-1/722.6 trans and was told the only difference was the clutch packs. The SRT trans is pretty much the same torque rating as most of the n/a V8's. The 55K had an even higher torque rating and the and the ones that were bolted to the twin turbo V12's had the highest rating. I am not sure how accurate the ratings are becasue the new 7 speed is rated hgher than the n/a V8 trans and has proven to be easier to break.

I would have thought I would have at least seen an "over toque" fault, but his has never happened. I haven't worried too much as replacement used trans are easy to find at resonable prices. I was also told that I could put my gearing into a V8 trans/case which would result in my excellent gearing with higher torque capability. One reason, my trans might be holding up is due to the fact that MB also put the V6 and V6 version trans in the big S class. Our cars weigh a lot less which helps the trans. Btw, my tans also has 93,000 miles on it. The only problem I ever had was the speed sensor which is part of the conductor plate going bad. I replaced this a couple of weeks ago and installed the blue tops at that time.

 

Very interesting about the auto differences... never knew that!

 

Well, with all the talent on here finally sharing info, and a top shop ready to jump in, I'd say there will be some new turbo'd XF's in the near future to watch out for. And I thought I would only have to worry about a few sneaky V-8's...lol.... It's all good....which ever route you travel...I'm happy with mine...

 

Let's dissect this shall we as there is so much more to this than meets the eye. First, to counter your fortunate situation, don't forget chucknorris and how he fried his tranny with a less torque than what you are putting down. Second, saying the only difference is the clutch packs is an oversimplification to the extreme. That "only difference" equates to a 180 ft/lb rating by a conservative OEM! Do you realize how close to double the rating of our tranny that is? Why didn't they just use the same in both?

IIRC the clutch packs are not only beefier but I want to say there was at least one more set. You can read about this "difference" over and over and it is most often exaggerated versus minimized.

That said, there are SEVERAL other real world factors that come into play (above and beyond ratings) as I have explained in pm's. Neither your situation, mine, nor that of chucknorris will be indicative of all. There are simply too many variables to consider.

First, driving style. How much do you baby your car compared to the next guy? How much do you or the next guy floor it from 5th on the highway to show off to a friend and risk turning your tranny into a hot tub of goo? How much do you use the tiptronic versus automatic?

Second, production quality, defects, etc. Did you get the luck of the draw or not? That is always a fun one to live with when pushing your car on the track!

Third, supporting modifications. Do you have the blue top solenoids or stock? Do you have increased cooling capacity or at a bare minimum a tranny temp gauge when pushing that hard on an under rated tranny?

Last but not least. Regardless of torque, it is often said that "traction" kills a tranny not torque. What kind of tires do you have? Crappy stock tires, widened rims and tires, drag radials, slicks? This kind of goes along with your lightweight argument but what happens when you truly "do" something with that torque? That is the gist of this comment, not that torque doesn't matter, but it is what you do with it that is of the greatest concern or impact.

Want to run street tires and show off how easy it is to light them up or let traction control be your friend? Well, in this case a tranny may very well be able to handle way more than rated for a very long time. In fact miles don't matter as much as the type of miles put on the car for sure. When you decide however to get serious about putting that power to the ground, that is when bad things typically start to happen and the dollar signs increase. I've seen more than one overly optimistic car owner add slicks to their bright and shiny FI kit and find themselves renting a trailer to make it home on cars with much more margin than ours (factory output versus trans rating).

Personally, I'm making a well educated decision to swap trannys for one that is rated higher than what I need for longevity. At the same time, doing so prior to frying my old unit (which I consider inevitable). I'll be able to recoup some of that money by selling a perfectly good stock tranny. It is a good investment in peace of mind.

In fact, I would advise people considering the turbo kit in development to read what I've posted here. I'm not going to hijack your thread to speak to this but as I said in PM's, I hope you at least advise the first prototype cars to monitor their tranny temps for a while until they feel safe and/or get better educated on tranny temps. The typical turbo configuration makes a huge torque peak at their boost threshold. This can be a tranny killer in much better situations than ours. Especially for an aggressive driver that does multiple pulls back to back without letting the tranny cool down!

 

Great info Web, I am going to be right behind you as I need to switch to the 55K ECU which Rudy has ready for me. One more major difference I will have to deal with is the fact that the 55K also used a bypass valve. The only exception was the first year 2002 Europe only 55K did not use a bypass valve. The 55K didn't come to the USA until 2003 which from then on had the bypass valve.

Questions and comments above.

 

Just when I thought I was going to pass on the manual... hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

get over the color choices and you too can have big hp torque and a tranny that holds up. srt!

 

You will have to deal with it either way...you start turning big HP numbers, I really don't think that manual is going to hold up...I know it wouldn't with me driving....

 

Black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray black blue gray


You know it's gotta be white. Even if I'm slower

BTW I saw you missed call, I'm charging my phone. It was deaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

 

Didn't hppd rrr hddp... Which ever way his screen name goes use a stock 6 speed with a few upgrades in his srt6 engine drop in? I thought he did but I know he changed so much on that car I could be wrong.

 

HDDP doesn't drag race....I would yank that lever out of the car...seriously.....

 

Interesting stuff here.. But Kleeman has been boosting V6s for a good while now, and they dont mod the auto trans with the kit. Im very intrigued by this issue now..