I hope he is continues to make progress. This would definantly be a worthy mode for the NA's. This is something I would love to do, but lacking those skills I will wait for the final result and then mimic. They say mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery you know.

 

IDeating.........the srt6 already is supercharged...were you thinking turbo...

 

Yea I was thinking of a turbo.

 

Wow, for a while there I was beginning to wonder if anyone really cared! I'm glad to see that people are still interested.

I kind of got side tracked with life, work, and life. Basically, I have her slightly torn down and that is where she has sat for a while. I was on target to make 8-10 psi with the current setup and started running into a misfire at around 4,500 RPM. So I decided to pull all 12 plugs and gap them tighter.

THEN I decided to pull the valve covers and give them the same treatment as my intake manifold.

THEN, I decided to bump up one size with the IC to a full 3" design.

THEN, I got caught up in an idea to get more wrap on the drive pulley.

Basically, I made it as far as one half of the motor - plugs pulled, re-gapped, cover reinstalled. I also modded the other cover to make room for the larger IC and painted it up but haven't re-installed it yet. Everything is in for my new3" IC tract as well so I have that to put on and test.

As part of that, I had ordered a really nice MAF section but the hole for the sensor is not the right size. So I'll be going back with the stock MAF. The stock unit is a better way to go anyway but I was seeing a little deformation of it due to tightening up the t-clamps too much. I'll have to go a little easier on it in the future.

I hope to get back on it after the holidays but right now it is way too busy around here! The motor is going to look really nice with just the IM and valve covers painted! They are the ugliest parts when you really get to looking at it up close, but man do they clean up nice or what?

 

They look real nice, Very Clean!

 

Sounds like and looks like you are making great progress. Take your time, it prevents mistakes. When I said the screw types only make 7.5 Psi ,I meant that they usually limit them. They are capable of much more, but no one wants a blown up engine with rods hanging out the side. I've owned a couple of turbo charged cars that were limited to 7 psi but could put out somewhere around 20 psi. A lot of the GM Eaton supercharged cars are limited in what they output. You need bigger intercoolers, etc. plus they want to keep down warranty repairs by limiting the output. Just comments, sounds like you have your plan mapped out and are doing well with it.

Dave
dtinker

 

Hey Web, I was thinking maybe your boost is pushing open those SAI valves and leaking back through your smog pump????

 

Looking forward to the next update!

 

Merry Christmas, Web, did Santa help you get that little thing any closer to 100%?

 

Not 100% by any means but today did mark the start of me getting back into it after the holiday hiatus. I plan on getting the valve covers back on and finding a permanent home for the IC reservoir now that I know what orientation works best.

 

I am a Mercedes guy who has a few turbo setups under his belt and I just wanted to add a few points after reading several pages of this fantastic thread. I'm not trying to step on any toes and I haven't read it all so bear with me:

The MAF maxxes out at just over 5.1 volts on a OBD-II logger at around 1-3psi on the M11x series engines. I am surprised you have been able to make the car run as smoothly as it apparently does with it being a blow thru setup (I read you still have it in front of the TB). I would strongly recommend you move the MAF in front of the supercharger and clamp the MAF at 4.95 volts and it will make your tuning so much easier, or remove the MAF connection altogether due to it's sensitivity. It won't stumble in part-throttle boosting and and it simplifies the entire construction of the fuel map. You can literally take one number from 14.7 psig down and set it at that. In my E320 with 750cc injectors, from 14.7 psig down(effectively the closed loop range), was -71.3 then at 15.0 psig and up began the real fuel map.

In terms of power holding don't set that engine at 14 psi. The pistons are iron-coated, cast silicon-aluminum pistons. Although on paper they are made of the same material as the cast pistons in the 32 AMG and SRT-6 have, they are cast with less pressure. Even though the reset of the bottom end is forged, a few good detonations and the ring-lands will go bye-bye on the pistons. With a 550hp capable S/C you'd be safe at 12psi max pulling several degrees of spark timing.

As to the issue of belt slippage. Couldn't it just be the stock belt slipping over the accessory side of your twin idler pulley? It has hardly any belt contact to begin with and they slip badly with as much as a dirty look at the bearing.

On the issue of spark timing. It sucks....the F/IC that is, and the F/IC-6 specifically. The F/IC-8 is AWESOME. Zero problems with the Mercedes crank trigger on a rear turbo CLK430 I built and it has the same trigger as the M112. The F/IC-6 will interfere like hell and even with the resistor mod on there you have to put one on so heavy it will shut the car down at idle and that's sure as hell not worth it.

Here's that 4.3L M113 CLK with a draw thru(yes the MAF harness was extended 10 feet) and the F/IC-8. No high rpm miss or stumble. The MAF was left untouch other than to extend the OE harness(you can see my test harness in the first video).
FIC with the cam sensor hooked up backwards so it was batch firing

With 70mm turbo

With 60mm turbo

 

Web,

Hope you do not mind, I invited Max from Southern Indiana to take a look and see what he thought. I will be talking with him about a rotrex in the future and figured you guys talking might help each other out, and with as few individuals out there who know this stuff, maybe you can swap some ideas.

Max,

Thanks for checking out the thread, I am looking forward to talking with you in the future about this and seeing some of your turbo work....

 

Welcome Max!!

 

Welcome Max,

I was hoping you would find us over here. I hope you will start a Turbo discussion thread. There is a lot of interest in getting more power out of the n/a Crossfire's M112 engine. A successful and cost effective turbo would be exciting to see. Thank you for answering my previous emails.

 

Thanks again Lantana for sharing info about Max with the rest of us, since he is only a few hours away from me, it makes everything a lot more probable....

 

Max, it's nice to see you post over here. I drooled over your build a while ago and it inspired me to learn more about turbos and electronics.. I'm building a megasquirted turbo'd 73 mach 1 thanks to you and a couple other builds I've seen

 

Thanks for the heads up on the FIC. It would really suck if I had to change to the FIC-8 but oh well, such is life. I was fighting two issues when I took her down, boost not what I calculated and a high rpm misfire (5200 rpm). From what I've read on the AEM site many have found the same thing and had to switch to the FIC-8 = damn!

Oh well, once I get her put back together, I'll have to see how it goes and if there is anything I can do to avoid that. If not, I guess that is the next bullet I will have to bite!

But as far as your suggestion on the MAF, thanks but there is no compelling reason to switch to a pre SC MAF setup.

In fact, it wouldn't make any sense in my situation unless I was seeing an erratic maf signal which I’m not. Even then, I would switch mafs before I would switch the position.

First, the car is running like stock until the misfire since I changed the base injector file in the FIC-6 (and the misfire has nothing to do with the MAF so it wouldn’t solve a problem there). Second, the FIC controls fuel from the MAP sensor pretty quickly as you said, so once again, there would be no impact from moving the MAF. Why, because either setup is running off the MAP when into power so the MAF is negated relatively quickly when you stomp on the gas = same tune from a certain point on up.

That said, I've seen and tried the alternative and with Rotrex systems it is most definitely NOT the way to go. MAF pre SC, compressed air pre TB, BOV, IC plumbing, IC efficiency = too many variables that all cause fluctuations. I prefer to get a reading of exactly what is going into the motor within the smallest window possible. Take into account that fuel is calculated in milliseconds, there is no other way to go in my book.

As far as my belt slip goes, I'm not so sure it is belt slip after all. Or at least, belt slip may only be partially to blame. First, I didn’t see a gradual boost curve that suddenly fell or leveled off. In fact, the whole curve was less then expected from beginning to end. Second, I have added a pulley in a couple of different locations (and changed belts accordingly) to increase wrap as well as implemented a new tensioner design with no real impact.

I’m pretty sure it is something a little more insidious; the traction fluid. Basically, I had topped off the Rotrex fluid with tranny fluid = Bad. The Rotrex fluid, for lack of a better word "plasticizes" under pressure and helps the rollers grip. The tranny fluid does not do this and in fact causes them to slip.

That led me to my latest project; taking out the rotrex and its cooling system and flushing everything out! What a pain in the butt!

So here is where I am at now.

I’ve installed the valve covers and IM. I also increased the size of the IC as the one I was using was undersized for the air I want to flow. I showed this in my original calculations but I didn’t really think I had a choice due to space constraints. Since the car was down, I decided to go ahead, order the larger one, and see what it would take to get it in there. It ended up not being that bad. All I had to do was mod the valve cover slightly and re-attach the rear coil pack so it sat lower.

The result looks very nice and makes the IC plumbing 3” from the IC to the TB. However, the angle is wrong for the hoses I have from the Rotrex to the IC so I have to order some more bends to get her all back together.

It was a nice exercise as it really cleaned up the plumbing. I also cleaned up the rotrex fluid hoses and routing. Next, I still need to re-design the IC coolant lines so the system flows as well as looks better then it did the first time around.

Oh well, I should be able to make quick work of getting her back on the road when my parts get here!

Stay tuned!

PS - I can't seem to post pics to my gallery so I just attached them to this post instead.

 

This looks promising...

 

Holy **** I just found this thread! Web 3.0, this thread has been a fascinating read. With all the projects that have been started for the Crossfire only to wind up in the dust, your super charging venture is a breath of fresh air. I dont go much further than changing my oil but your write ups are great! An amazing job.

 

Well, I got her put back together and started looking at the pulley setup and remembered where it was that I left off. Basically, I had made a roller to get more wrap on the dual drive pulley but it was in the way of the water pump pulley. Therefore, I decided to go back to plan "a" and am having another drive pulley made to clean her up and reduce the level of complexity. I should have it in my hands within a couple of weeks, then I can resume the process. Here is a pic of how she came together!