hey 3.0, just wondering how much you got into your project, with the Euro crashing,do you think it may be a more economical option to just buy the Kleenman kit?

http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/p...pressor_V3.pdf

 

I think with the Rotrex that Web 3.0 is working on installing there will be much more power than the Kleeman could provide. Especially with the 6psi or 7psi boost that you would run on the kompressor. Running 7psi on the Rotrex would net you a much bigger increase. Between that and wanting a turbo v. a kompressor (supercharger) just for preference

 

Progress is looking good so far. The one thing I've been looking at with the air-water setup im debating running is bleeding the system, I plan on using the same core as you and with it placed so high, all of the air in the system is gonna accumulate in the intercooler.

I was thinking about having a bung welded to the top of the fluid passages to have a continuously bleeding coolant system for the intercooler, but I couldnt find a suitable place high enough for the surge tank.

Maybe you can look at it from a different POV since you have the intercooler rather solidly mounted.

Also, how are you liking the FIC? I'm about to pick one up to start building base maps and get everything running smoothly (similar to you) before I start installing turbo components.


And you wouldnt have those spare injectors still would you? Dont forget you'll need a new fuel pump as well

 

Wow, that is the last time I ever want to move! I've spent the last 6 weeks getting the old house on the market, packing, moving, and unpacking. Just when I was about to bolt on the beast everything came to a schreeching halt Oh well, I got my garage unpacked yesterday, cleaned up, and the car pulled into place. This morning, I spent an hour or two sorting through my SC parts and getting reacquainted with where I was at on my build. I made some modification to the Rotrex intake housing, the mounting bracket, mounting bolt holes, and spacer size. Installed the rotrex and test fit the drive belt.

Now I am set to get back to work and get this thing moving. I do have one detour to take however. The AEM is doing great after the firmware update. Except for the fact that I seem to lose it every now and then. Something in the harness isn't quite right and it seems to shut off periodically. I'm going to have to tackle that before I go any further. If it stops works while in boost my motor is toast.

I thought I tackled this already but my first attempt, while making it better, didn't solve the problem completely.

 

Well, I got to spend 4-5 hours on her today and made some great progress. I'm really proud of how she is shaping up!

I snapped a couple of quick pics to share. On that note, I haven't gotten around to hooking up my server after the move the rest of the pics in this thread are dead. I'll try to get a chance to work on that, then get them moved over to the gallery so I don't have to worry about that happening again.

I finished the tweaks to the SC mount and other except for the brace. I then completed the IC plumbing and routed the intake, then placed the air filter behind the grill. Lastly, I found a suitable place for the Rotrex fluid reservoir and set it in place.

That said, there is still a lot to do! I have to make a silencer and route a hose down from the bov to hide the noise it makes. Install the rotrex fluid HE and IC HE. Not to mention the Ford lightning pump and all of the fluid plumbing. Then I have to circle back around to testing and double checking all electrical connections before I start it up and lastly run a boost signal to the fuel pump!

Then test, tweak, and tune. I ran out of black hoses and had to slip a blue one in there behind the grill, as well as, use an old filter that isn't in the best shape. However, that was all stuff I had in a box to make it work. Once I prove the design I will replace these parts with bright and shiny

Whew!

 

That's a lot of progress in 4-5 hours . Looks great. My only concern thusfar is the flow restrictions created by having a 90 degree bend right off the compressor. I alsways like to see as much straight section off the compressor as possible in both supercharged and turbocharged applications. Despite this, I fully understand that due to space and engine configuration, there is no other way. Anyways, looks like you've got 90% of the hardware issues figured out. I can't wait until the HEs, pump, fluid lines, and fuel pump boost signal are installed so you take her for a spin and begin tuning!!

Btw, some people might prefer and unsilenced BOV .

 

Thanks and cramped it is for sure! As far as restrictions go though there are two things to consider. First, a 90 degree bend, especially a smooth one like this only represents a theoretical 1% decrease in airflow. The bigger concern for me is actually a 90 degree turn right at the maf.

Not because of a restriction, but due to the havoc it plays with the MAF sensor. However, looking at the design of our maf, it looks like it has more than enough attention paid to straightening airflow before the sensor that it shouldn't be an issue at all. It will be interesting however to graph out the airflow before and after to see if there is a major difference.

The other thing to remember here is that I "need" a restriction of airflow.

I'm running a blower that can make 555 HP at max rpm (which I am set to run) and I want to make 130 or so less. Max supercharger rpm for max low end, then choke it off at the top to limit boost!

 

You're absolutely right about the troubles that mass airflow meters can cause. If you run into any issues, would there be an option to convert to MAP based system installed in the charge pipe prior to the manifold? Anyways, sounds like you're pretty confident in the MAF working.

I like your hp goals but I'm concerned about the internals being able to handle what your throwing at it. I'm sure that detonation and knock won't be issues if you have the tunning spot on but, if i'm not mistaken, the SRT has reinforced internals for only 330bhp vs your goal of 425bhp on base internals.

 

I and my wallet share that concern Quite simply, I'm very eager to see what if anything breaks first. I've refrained from saying so, but ultimately I'm looking to make around 350 rwhp.

Will it be on the stock motor and how long will it last? I don't know, but if the little Mercedes motor has half the guts of a Toyota or Ford then I'm in good shape. Hell, people had the same concern when I was running 575bhp on my ford 4.6l up from 300bhp. Then again when I routinely ran over 300bhp on a 1.8l from 138, then yet again when I ran 400bhp on a 1.8l from 180bhp. All on stockinternals.

Still a lot depends on the tune, the individual motor build quality, and last but not least, the luck of the draw.

Besides, ultimate goal aside, I still have a lot of common sense and the tuning process and how it goes will ultimately tell the tale.

I will start out very conservative, and turn her up a little at a time, checking multiple things along the way. I'll probably end up pulling the oil pan and checking rod bearings, compression and other indicators dozen times or more. We are talking about a months long process here that will stop whenever I start to see signs of something giving way. I can generally catch a problem before it goes critical. On the off chance that I do not, I'll build a stronger and better motor next time. It's all a part of the game!!

Sorry for all the edits but I'm trying to type and format this on my iPhone.

 

Side Note: The bigger thing on the table here is that I designed and am building a setup that can put down 550 BHP. Better yet, a simple pulley change and tune can back track from this number to virtually any power level with which I feel comfortable.

What do I REALLY want? Ultimately, what I really want is a nice, solid, low 12 second car. Yet I know that can change once I get there so I built in some head room. Otherwise I would have gone with a C30 SC with a max rating of 400BHP. Which by the way is also still a potential option on the table for other people that go this route given that I am successful. That said, what combination of tires and rwhp it takes to get me there will ultimately decide itself.

Having the extra head room will also give me the opportunity, if it should present itself in the form a blown motor (the bad kind), for me to build a new one along with tranny mods and other to take me to the real upper limits of this blower!

 

Sounds good to me WEB. I went to 300whp (roughly 345bhp) from 155bhp with my KA24DE years back with a poor tune. Some did 500bhp on stock motors with good tunes. Nissan built strong, overengineered motors so with Mercedes' reputation of quality, you'd assume they did the same.

Staying tuned in for more progress updates!

 

Sounds great Web! I can't wait to see the finished product. In fact, I'm hoping (along with a lot of other folks) that you make this into a kit. I would really love to have the power of my SRT-6 in a manual transmission Crossfire. It just might make me trade for one.

 

lol, ka's are nothing more than time bombs. they all break.. all the time

 

Infinite Don't start bashing my beloved KA.Let me guess, you were part of the SR20 camp ? Although it's been years, my 240sx was probably the most reliable car I ever owned- before and after it was turbocharged. That car went through a lot of abuse. When I sold her, she was still running strong with no signs of letting up. Any engine will break without proper care.

 

Lol I still am part of the sr crowd. I have a built, sleeved, and ported 2.2 sr20 waiting to go in my s13 and another sr I'm building for another car. I have a ka too but it's in pieces in the corner

I'm building race cars and ka's are just way too heavy.

And yes with the fic8 you can eliminate the map sensor as the aem does maf emulation where the stock ecu thinks it's still there but it's not actually being used. The aem will output voltage based on a table to the stock ecu all the while the aem is controlling fuel and timing based off of map and tps.

 

Yes, the aem can do maf emulation if need be. For now, I am trying to keep as many stock pieces as possible and keep tuning difficulties to a minimum. However, if I do need to go there it is ready, willing, and able!

 

From what I understand, the tuning for the maf emulation has to be spot on inorder to keep the stock ecu from wigging out

 

I have no experience in taking on such a project, but how are you installing the MAF sensor, seems you might be blowing thru the MAF correct?

wouldn't it be a better design to suck thru the MAF nearest the intake of the Supercharger, this way it's always seeing low pressure which is how it was engineered to operate, correct?

just a thought, please enlighten me..

 

mafs dont care about pressure, they just measure air flow.

our style maf will work as a blow though, although from what i understand after about 2psi they max out voltage wise.

putting the maf before the supercharger means a few things..

its not accurately measuring airflow into the motor, since a supercharger compresses it and heats, then is cooled by the intercooler. the best place to have it is between the intercooler and throttle body, preferably on a straigh piece of pipe, at least 3" before and after the maf.

with a suck through setup, atmospheric blow off valves cause cars to run rich since metered air is begin removed from the intake tract, between shifts... which if bad enough can cause a car to stumble and stall... most blow off valves are atmospheric, and when idling, vacuum pulls them open.. which causes extra air to be ingested by the motor, unmetered, which causes the car to run lean.

 

Infinite is absolutely right. In order to avoild the drawbacks of the atmospheric bovs, you can typically, depending on the bov, route a tube that directs the released air back into the intake stream. It's not perfect but it usually works. That's the physical/hardware cure. There are also ways to compensate and get around this with his AEM.

In this case, I believe Web is running the standard pre-compressor pull through MAF setup; not a blow through.