Hi,

Has anyone ever actually measured the airflow in CIM or CFM of the stock airbox vs. any type of CAI ?

I've read that some CAI designs seem to increase performance/ wHP, but I wonder what the actual increase in airflow needs to be to effect an increase.

Also, I've read the threads about single vs. dual intake and I wonder how much restriction is inherent in the stock air box ( it's a dual intake that's supposed to be designed to create a supercharging/warming effect, that the engine is supposed to be more responsive to).

I accept other forum members testimonials about HP/performance increases by changing to either single or dual CAI, I'd just like to know the numbers if anyone has them.

Thanks,

Modge

 

i do remember some time ago a member stated that he insulated his intake with hood liner to help shield it from motor heat. these cars tend to drop power after the engin bay warms up to operating temp. he claimed that doing this decreased the effect. that would go against the whole warming pressurising effect you stated, and also support the results people are posting about cai setups.

 

I'm not dreaming this stuff up... it's in the service manual - see Air Intake section and IATS and MAF sections.

Does the Xfire N/A use a speed density system ? ( it looks like it since it uses a MAF and a MAP).

I don't claim to understand the details of the entire closed SD system but I do know that increasing air flow ( never mind the temperature of that air for a minute) will cause the AITS to alter it's resistance ( fuel calculation changes) and the MAF will cause the PCM to readjust the voltage/current to the heating resistor in the MAF/AITS assembly to maintain the 160 degree differrence between the heater resistor and the sensor resistor. The MAP ( Manifold Air Pressure) sensor would also notice the difference in air flow by virtue of a pressure increase in the intake manifold and adjust according to the fuel map it has in memory. The O2 sensor would also react to an increase in flow ( increased oxygen) by also seeking to cause an altereration of the fuel air mixture ( likely leaning up). Another component of the system that factors intop the equation is the Accelerator Pedal Sensor( of Sprint Booster fame),

Is it possible that , as opposed to actually responding to a difference in air temperature, Stock box vs. CAI, the system ends up accessing a different point in the fuel mapping firmware?

As to why the member experienced a reduction in horsepower with an insulated CAI... I couldn't tell you except to wonder if the "loss" ( assuming there actually was one ) was experienced over the entire power band.

I thought I had read promises to post dyno info somewhere for N/A Xfires with CAI... if so, could someone point me to them? It would be interesting to see if supposed HP increase is experienced across the whole range. ( I'm guessing it's not and is at lower RPMs , until the PCM/ECU catches up... just a guess).

Modge

 

i think you misunderstood my post.

i was saying he notice less of a drop in hp as the engine warmed up. therefore keeping more hp as the motor got to running temps. not a loss in hp from cooling the intake.

 

You are right ... I did misunderstand, sorry.

 

Hey, I found this on the K&N site-so I'm assuming it's public domain... they " Guarantee" an increase in horsepower with their CAI , but in order to claim the " Guarantee" you have to have your car dynoed before and after installation . In the event that there is no increase ( how about .5hp as an increase) they'll refund the cost of their kit

Wasn't able to find a K&N CAI kit specifically for a Crossfire or 320 SLK/CLK though...










Every Intake Kit we design has been tested on a Dynamometer and proven to increase horsepower. We measure horsepower at the wheels. The horsepower rating that may have been on the window sticker when your car was new is often a measurement of horsepower at the engine and there can be a loss of horsepower through the drive train by the time it reaches the wheels.

K&N hereby warrants and guaranties to the original retail purchaser of any K&N air intake kit that the vehicle on which the air intake system is installed will gain an increase in horsepower, or K&N will refund the purchase price, including sales tax, to the retail purchaser, subject to the following terms and conditions:

• The K&N air intake system must have been properly installed on the vehicle in accordance with the included K&N instructions.
• The system must be the correct part number for the vehicle upon which it was installed.
• The vehicle must be in good running condition.
• The vehicle must undergo a dynamometer test both before and after the installation of the system, with no changes to the vehicle, except for the installation of the kit. The dyno tests must be performed by the same testing facility and must be performed within 30 days of one another and within 60 days of the date of purchase. The test results or work order for each test must reflect the name and address of the vehicle owner or operator having the test performed; the year, make, model and mileage of the vehicle being tested; and the horsepower results from both tests.
• If the dyno tests show that the vehicle did not gain an increase in horsepower, then the retail purchaser must return the complete air intake system to K&N in its original packaging, together with his or her proof of purchase, the ORIGINALS of the two dyno tests statement requesting a refund in accordance with our Horsepower Guarantee. Upon receipt of all of the foregoing, K&N will refund the full purchase price, including sales tax, to the original retail purchaser.
• This guaranty does not apply to any other costs incurred by the purchase, including, but not limited to, the dyno tests, parts and labor for the installation and removal of the air intake system, shipping costs, rental car, loss of use or incidental damages, if any, and K&N expressly disclaims any and all liability for same. :-)
  

 

If you hurry you can get in on the Needswings Intake group buy. It's a single and he has dyno sheets to prove the gain. I only use numbers I run at the track, and it dropped my 1/4 mile time by .5 tenths of a second. That's huge, and it's an SRT6. Not sure how much time a N/A will yield. If you search back thread for CAI, someone did measure the flow of a single and double and found that the single exceeded the max air the SRT6 could handle. So double wouldn't help even if it had more air flow. Most double CAI don't pass through to the front just behind the grill and actually provide fresh air. Do a search and you will find lots of answers. good luck.

 

Thanks, are you telling me that you shaved 5/100 sec off your 1/4 mile time just by using a CAI? Wonder if it would work that well on a N/A Xfire?
If the dyno sheets showing before and after exist somewhere, I'd sure like to see them... before I buy.

 

I went with the dual CAI intake for 2 reasons;
1) it looks incredable I like the balanced engine bay.
2) as long as the intake on the engine is 3" that is about all the air it can take (excluding vortex theories it actually does increase some) BUT when one introduces filter restriction and head hight of the indution pipe by doubling the intake you can have as much as 50% restriction on the system and still be equal in induced air to the single intake type system.
Mike

 

Needswings has the dyno sheets on here somewhere or you can just email him. sales@needwings.com. You misunderstood what I said, I didn't shave 5/100ths off my time I shaved 5/10ths. That's a half second, and no I wouldn't expect the same on a NA. Just because it increased air for our superchargers. I would expect 2/10 tenths off your fastest time under the same conditions. My best run this past winter with my stock car and tires was 13.26 or 13.28. Don't remember but I did post my time on here way back. I would have to look at my slips. A week later when I got the intake with the same beautiful conditions, I ran a 12.72 with stock tires. That was the best I did with just the intake. With adding a 178mm ASP pulley and drag radials I was able to get down to 12.52. I think with drag radials I could have hit 12.6's. I have put off an ECU tune, but others have cut alot of time off with one. The group buy hit 30 people so it is the cheapest your ever going to be able to get one. Most of the other forum members are just getting able to hit the tracks, so it will be interesting to see the real number comparisons.

 

i changed the air filters in my srt-6 paper only , and that made a big change
increase in power ect.. i could only think what a needs wing - Let sl 55
or a TVT would be like , maybe in the future, oh BTW i have got 24.6 mph on the freeway avg 22 mpg

 

Check this thread out - first post...
https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...ad.php?t=23230

 

With our modified airbox we were able to come within 5RWHP as with the CAI. The big thing that holds you back is heat sink.

Will you feel the difference in 5 HP? Probably not. If you want to keep your stock airbox we can modify it to flow significantly better.

Anthony
TVT Design