Hi all,

So, as most of you are aware, I finalized the sale of my car last Saturday to a local guy. I couldn't have asked for a more accommodating buyer, and I would really like to maintain a friendship with him given the fact that we are local and share many common interests.

Having said all of that... yesterday I get a phone call. He had driven to the airport to leave town for a week, and literally as he's entering short-term parking... the car develops a misfire. Now, when he called, he was panicked -- after all, if you've never felt our cars misfire and start killing cylinders, it's a scary experience. The car shakes, the motor sounds like a bucket of bolts, and the idle won't climb above 500 RPM. I calmly explained all of this to him, and asked him if he had checked the codes. He said no, but there was a CEL. I asked if he was able to let the car cool down and attempt a restart, he said he didn't have the time due to the departure of his flight.

Now, as some of you remember, I had an issue with heat-related misfire but it only occurred on warm days, and I took it down to Buckhead and they eventually discovered it was the Bosch EV14 injectors. We swapped those out, put a new dyno tune on the car, and they gave it a clean bill of health. The car drove FLAWLESSLY (in fact, better than it ever had) on the 4-hour drive back. I drove it for the next two weeks during the hottest days we've had this year, and experienced zero issues. My buyer drove it home last Saturday, with zero issues. He's been driving it all week, with zero issues. In fact, I spoke to him on Wednesday and asked him how he was liking it... his response was "it is working beautifully, I'm very happy with the car".

At the moment, the car is sitting at the airport and will be there until he returns next week. As of right now, I have no clue which code was thrown at the moment of misfire. The car was sold as-is, with no warranty. Yesterday was a cool morning (~70°) and he had only driven it 11 miles from his house to the airport.

My concerns/questions:

• I want to help him out of kindness, but with no legal obligation to do so, would you recommend it?
• He has been driving it for a week with no issues, and I have no clue what he's done to it during the week
• Should I simply offer advice, but no physical assistance?
• How do I "politely" advise him that the car is not my issue anymore without alienating a friendship?

I know that from a legal standpoint, I have nothing to fear because there was no implied or expressed warranty. From an ethical standpoint, I have nothing to be ashamed of because I sold him the car in perfect running order with a clean bill of health. It's unfortunate that he's already had an issue, but at the same time I don't have a heavy conscience because I went to every length possible to make the car as "like new" as possible for him (even getting him a new key and replacing the headliner at zero cost to him).

My dad says to wash my hands of the deal since he is now the owner, and dad insists that I owe him nothing and that any additional "help" will only muddy the waters and encourage future harassment.

I want to preserve a friendship, but at the same time, I have neither the time nor patience to receive a phone call every time the car does something unexpected. It IS a high-performance, modified, 10-year-old car after all...

Your thoughts? If you were in my shoes, how would you handle it?

Thank you for your advice...

 

I would give him suggestions but no-way offer physical assistance. You don't want to set yourself up as his go-to mechanic whenever something happens.

 

If you do a search on SRT6 Misfires , several threads are there, you may find the answer.

 

Yeah, I'd also say offer him verbal assistance, what you just told us, and a link to the forum to search for info.

 

Send him back to Buckhead for assistance.
They were good enough for you, they are good enough for him.

 

I would lend the assistance you would any other friend. This was your baby so help him research the problem and steer him to an honest shop. Remember why he purchased from you to begin with. You will do the right thing.

 

I recently sold my Volvo V70R wagon to a Texas buyer. He had a prepurchase inspection performed on the car post purchase prior to the long drive back and the mechanic found no problems.

Once back in Texas he replaced the tires which were near gone (without prompting I had lowered our agreed upon price to compensate for same) and discovered the noise we all thought was related to the worn tires was in fact a wheel bearing. I learned this from a forum post.

I offered him a used factory load bar set with a new value of a couple of hundred dollars as compensation. This is a guy I will never do business with nor even see again. There was a "as is" clause in our purchase agreement but felt it like the right thing to do and it felt good to do it.

Your case is not exactly the same. Once the problem is determined you will have a decision to make.

 

Thanks guys.

Honestly I've referred him to this forum several times... says he intends to join, but I haven't seen him yet. He's a nice guy and I have no ill feelings toward him -- I just don't want to be contacted every time the car has a hiccup. I don't think that's an unreasonable request. When I bought Kim her "new" 2009 Volkswagen CC from a small car lot last June, we didn't even make it home and a check-engine light popped up. The end result? We dropped $500 at the VW dealership to fix an issue within the first week of ownership. We bought it w/o a warranty, therefore we couldn't hold the dealer liable. It sucked, but it was just bad timing.

I feel bad about the situation simply because of the timing... I don't feel "guilty" of anything because there was nothing withheld from him, and on the day the sale was made, everything worked perfectly. I picked my car up from Buckhead in the beginning of June... The issue that they fixed was systematic, repeatable; and after they fixed it, the car never had the same failure again.

That's why I'm not convinced it's the "same" failure. CPS (crank or cam) can cause the same misfire... literally won't know until we can hook up the DashDaq and pull the codes.

 

This is correct. Do the right thing.

 

i think a few things need to be brought to light. i see more than a few posts referring to "do the right thing". what many don't know is
1. this guy approached john not the other way around.
2. he wanted to buy the car with the misfire issue unresolved and john wouldn't sell it in that condition
3. he spent his time getting a second key for the guy as he was to busy
4. he had the headliner redone at the buyers expense and john's time
5. he had the car taken to atl. for the misfire diagnosis and retune and paid in excess of 1000$ so he could sell the car knowing any issues were resolved

as a 10 yr old car john has "done the right thing" many times over. i have told him to have him contact b/i and let the shop handle it. as is were is sale and bad timing. its sucks at times but thats what it is

 

That is pretty profound. On the one hand, I could see the guy thinking that "I'm sure not going to have that problem" so he is quite surprised. On the other hand, I could also see him being upset, and thinking that he bought someone else's problems. Which he kinda did - that is what we do when we buy a used, out-of-warranty, car.

I mean, my 2200 mile ride home from Arizona in my car was uneventful, but had I had trouble, I'd not even have called the seller.
And I didn't call the seller when, three weeks after buying it, the ignition locked up and I had to be towed home on a flat bed.




My only advice is: Don't take advice from me, a guy who was married for less than four months to a crazy woman!

 

Personally I think he's looking for direction more than compensation. Do the right thing by steering him in the right direction to getting the issue resolved, but as adults, neither of you should expect your wallet to be affected in any way by future or present breakdowns.

 

Thank you, Steve. Only points of correction are on items 3 and 4... Regarding the key, I volunteered that as a cookie for the sale... they key was procured at my time & my expense. As for the headliner, he offered to pay to have the headliner replaced, and was willing to cut me a check for that cost ($190), but I refused it on the day I sold him the car, and told him I would absorb that in the name of "making the car as perfect as possible".

Aside from those two details, you're spot-on.

Again, it's worth reiterating that the "problem" the car was having (when I was approached by him to buy it) was completely resolved three weeks prior to the final sale. For that reason alone, I would be shocked to learn that this most recent issue is a continuation of the previously fixed problem. I intentionally delayed the sale until I could have a professional shop find (and fix) the recurring issue I was having. Buckhead found it, fixed it, and charged me $1,000+ to give myself (and the buyer) peace of mind. So, my buyer didn't necessarily buy my "problems"... he did buy a used, out-of-warranty car that is loaded with Mercedes electronics and sensors. He never requested to have an inspection done on the car... most buyers choose to do so as an extra measure of certainty. If the car was destined to fail again, it could have just as easily done so a week earlier with me behind the wheel. And of course, had that occurred, I would not have sold the car.

I was hoping you would chime in, Anthony. And direction, I will gladly give him. I want nothing more than to preserve a friendship, and I wanted him to have many, many trouble-free miles of ownership. Unfortunately that last bit didn't come true, and it truly does make me sad about the whole situation. With that being said, you're absolutely right -- I shouldn't be expected to cover the costs of a post-sale breakdown on a car sold w/o warranty. I will gladly give him pointers, contacts, and referrals to this forum... which is what I relied on the entire time I owned the car.

I have lots of history on this forum, and you guys all know that I try to conduct everything with utmost respect and integrity. This sale is no different... and I truly can't think of anything else I could have done to make the purchase more painless for this guy. New key (my cost), new headliner (my cost), a trip to Atlanta to have it professionally repaired and given a clean bill of health (my cost), tons of documents and the big repair manuals were included, and all remaining OEM parts were included with the sale (my cost). He paid my full asking price, but I gave him nearly $2,000 in courtesies.

All of those things were done for the sole purpose of giving the buyer confidence that he wasn't dealing with a swindler. I'm not sure what more I can do to "do the right thing".

 

I know all that John. I did not mean to say that you sold him "your problems", other than, again, used cars are like this.

I feel your anguish over this, and Im sure YOU thought you had done all you could to do see to it that the car was right. But as you said, it's a ten year old car. Fact is, there are many things that could be causing the current trouble; and there can't be a better place you could have taken it than B/I.

And spending $1000 to get a car ready to sell? I doubt any dealer would have done what you did.

 

Thanks Mark.

You're right, the anguish I'm feeling isn't a reflection of guilt... it's simply exasperation that the "warm fuzzy feeling" I spent thousands of $$$'s to give the new owner, has seemingly vaporized with an untimely (and likely brand-new) failure.

It's like spending $500 on caviar to impress your date, only to figure out she's allergic to seafood.

Sucks majorly.

 

Nothing can be done until any codes that have been set are read.
A used car is a used car, it could be anything, time takes its toll on everything. I know that from experience.

 

Wanted to give you all an update on the situation...

So tonight, I drove up to the airport to meet him. Wheels touched down at 6:20, and by 6:30 we were looking at the car.

The good news: It does NOT appear to be related to my other issue that was fixed by Buckhead.

The bad news: We still don't have a clue what the problem is

I got a clearer story tonight as to what happened at the moment of failure... he said he had made it into the parking area just fine; it was only the last 15 feet (literally in front of the parking spot) that the failure occurred.

Failure "felt" the same as my old misfire problem. But here's the kicker -- no CEL.

I plugged in the DashDaq and tried to pull codes... nothing. 0 pending MILs, 0 DTCs.



Tried to start the car, and it cranks and fires right up -- and settles right into a ~450 RPM idle (lumpy). If you give it, say, 10% throttle... the idle smooths out and you can maintain 1,000 RPM and it will be fairly smooth. Give it ~25% throttle, and it falls on its face. Literally won't go above that RPM.

Engine was cold, hadn't been run in nearly a week so we know it's not a heat issue. Something broke -- a sensor, throttle body maybe? But it won't idle and won't take anything more than 25% throttle.

Conclusion is that he called AAA and had them come to pick him up. He is going to have the car dropped off at Mercedes of Nashville (he knows the lead SA) and hopefully they can plug Star-DAS into it and see what's what.

Still bummed for him... I hate that he only got 110 miles of enjoyment out of it before it gave him an issue. You simply never know.

So, I plan to stay in touch and "guide" him to the right fix (and cheaper parts).

Not going to abandon him and simply say "good luck". Not how I operate.

Cheers,

 

check all the electrical connections. injector wires, coil packs, etc. could be the harness to the t/b. surprised the s/a at cool springs would even let the car on the lot. they have never been friendly towards any crossfire.

 

Mighty good of you John to help see him through this. I really think this is a big factor in the forum being so "cheap" on buying cars. Yours freshly "fixed" tuned and purring like a kitten to a roll back in a week. You just never know when something is going to run amuck .. and we're aware that it can happen and cost you up to another grand easily.

 

Could someone help me understand how we see so many obvious failures and no codes?

My SWAG is EGR stuck open.