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TVT tubes and NW devils horns... worth it?

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2010, 08:03 PM
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Default Re: TVT tubes and NW devils horns... worth it?

110$ for the devil harns and 50$ for some 3" tubing. you can build it yourself
 
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:35 PM
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Default Re: TVT tubes and NW devils horns... worth it?

Originally Posted by onehundred80
I imagine ram air as being similar to scooping up table tennis ***** with a big scoop, sure some go into the funnel but most just roll of one another and pass by the scoop. In real life the "*****" are smaller and weigh next to nothing and do not like to be compressed or make a vacuum, they just roll of one another and bypass the scoop

.....

A devils horn would work if you were scooping up corn but for air its a waste of time, it serves as a waste of energy (weight) rather than creating more. By the time air has got to the opening its rolled of the side.
If that's the case, a kite with a big hole in the center would still sustain flight.

Your "corn" theory works if you're referencing a scoop with no induction on the other end. But when an engine is sucking air at 4,000 RPM, there is more than adequate draw to prevent the "scoop" from theoretically filling up with air molecules.

If your sink is equipped with a garbage disposal, try this experiment:

Pour a gallon-jug of water into the drain as fast as you can, with the faucet running at the same time. The volume of water will overwhelm the capacity of the drain... UNTIL you turn on the disposal. Suddenly, the water near the neck of the drain is facilitated by the spinning blade, and the water goes whooshing through the drain.

Same thing with our intakes. Air is much more slippery than water, and air molecules WILL compress although solid kernels of corn will not. The kernels stop flowing when the comination of surface area exceeds the surface area of the cross-section of the drain (πr^2). This is known as a blockage.

I've never seen moving air block a duct. Therefore, I would presume that a duct with a TON of draw on it, even at idle, would have ample evacuation of molecules to prevent such a blockage (if one could even exist).

Again, think of the kite. The kite can sustain flight when the net force of air pressing onto the surface area meets or exceeds the constant pull of gravity (-9.82 m/s^2). With a hole in the kite, the net force of the air seeks the opening and willingly condenses, exiting the hole in the kite much more rapidly than when it entered. The only force acting as a draw on the kite's surface is atmospheric pressure. As a result, the air is evacuated from the kite's surface faster than the air can collect, and the kite smashes to the ground as a result.

So, to assume that a 3" pipe (angle-cut to create a scoop 6" in length) would overpower the flow-capability of an equally large 3" pipe (leading into the intake with an ever-increasing draw from the engine) is nonsense.

We're not talking about strapping a wheelbarrow to the front of the 3" pipe... it's merely another 3" pipe angle-cut to reveal maximum inlet surface area without impeding with radiator flow.

To suggest that this would NOT improve induction is unbelievable.

As for your concerns about the weight penalty of two small pieces of aluminum pipe, the overall weight gains would be negated by the driver spending three days on the treadmill.

No sense in pulling your hair out over ounces, when you consume pounds at the dinner table. Drive barefoot, and you won't even notice the energy inefficiency their added weight will cause your machine. We're driving street cars in full factory trim... kinda dumb to split hairs over a pound here and there.
 

Last edited by JHM2K; 04-29-2010 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:31 PM
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Default Re: TVT tubes and NW devils horns... worth it?

Originally Posted by MikeR
Since I have both the SL55 with TVT tubes and devil horns and the NW Dual CAI, I can give you a couple of performance comparisons....

I was running the stock SL55 intake on the Aero for quite a while and it did very good..... I got the Aero down to 12.06sec @ 114mph last year with that and my other mods.... could not really hear the SC whine with this setup.......

Then NW came out with the Dual CAI and I swtiched over..... I got to try it at the track at the end of the season and ran 11.96sec @ 113.9 on back to back runs... .... you can hear the SC whine with this setup.....

I installed the SL55 with TVT tubes and NW devil horns on the stock SSB and ran a 12.8sec @ 109.7mph two weeks ago.... I never ran it stock at the track so cant tell you what improvement it was... no SC whine, but definite increase in power.....

I like them both. The NW Dual is a better performer, from my expierence, but you will be happy with the SL55 intake.... you can always add the TVT tubes and devil horns later....(like I did).....
Mike, the stock ones I have ran at the track, usually on hot days, run around 13.1 on the average...so, it helped your SSB
 
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Old 04-30-2010, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: TVT tubes and NW devils horns... worth it?

Did you say terrible supercharger whine?
 
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Old 05-02-2010, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: TVT tubes and NW devils horns... worth it?

Originally Posted by JHM2K
If that's the case, a kite with a big hole in the center would still sustain flight.

Your "corn" theory works if you're referencing a scoop with no induction on the other end. But when an engine is sucking air at 4,000 RPM, there is more than adequate draw to prevent the "scoop" from theoretically filling up with air molecules.

If your sink is equipped with a garbage disposal, try this experiment:

Pour a gallon-jug of water into the drain as fast as you can, with the faucet running at the same time. The volume of water will overwhelm the capacity of the drain... UNTIL you turn on the disposal. Suddenly, the water near the neck of the drain is facilitated by the spinning blade, and the water goes whooshing through the drain.

Same thing with our intakes. Air is much more slippery than water, and air molecules WILL compress although solid kernels of corn will not. The kernels stop flowing when the comination of surface area exceeds the surface area of the cross-section of the drain (πr^2). This is known as a blockage.

I've never seen moving air block a duct. Therefore, I would presume that a duct with a TON of draw on it, even at idle, would have ample evacuation of molecules to prevent such a blockage (if one could even exist).

Again, think of the kite. The kite can sustain flight when the net force of air pressing onto the surface area meets or exceeds the constant pull of gravity (-9.82 m/s^2). With a hole in the kite, the net force of the air seeks the opening and willingly condenses, exiting the hole in the kite much more rapidly than when it entered. The only force acting as a draw on the kite's surface is atmospheric pressure. As a result, the air is evacuated from the kite's surface faster than the air can collect, and the kite smashes to the ground as a result.

So, to assume that a 3" pipe (angle-cut to create a scoop 6" in length) would overpower the flow-capability of an equally large 3" pipe (leading into the intake with an ever-increasing draw from the engine) is nonsense.

We're not talking about strapping a wheelbarrow to the front of the 3" pipe... it's merely another 3" pipe angle-cut to reveal maximum inlet surface area without impeding with radiator flow.

To suggest that this would NOT improve induction is unbelievable.

As for your concerns about the weight penalty of two small pieces of aluminum pipe, the overall weight gains would be negated by the driver spending three days on the treadmill.

No sense in pulling your hair out over ounces, when you consume pounds at the dinner table. Drive barefoot, and you won't even notice the energy inefficiency their added weight will cause your machine. We're driving street cars in full factory trim... kinda dumb to split hairs over a pound here and there.
Kites are airfoils so a hole in the middle takes away the lift associated with airfoils, lower air pressure above the kite and higher pressure under the kite. Even a kite with no hole will not fly well, if at all, if the angle at which it is held in the breeze is wrong. This is kite flying 101 and known by most kids after a few lessons.
The garbage disposal unit uses an impeller to force the water and scraps through the cutters, if water flowed freely through it it would not work.Similarly the water pump in your car is an impediment to water flow if it is not spinning.
If the devils horn was to work well then you could prove its efficiency by throwing small ***** at the scoop portion and the majority would bounce up the pipe, why would air go down the pipe? Only air replacing that which had be sucked up the pipe would enter the pipe, the largest amount would just rush on by.
My comments on the corn are not to be taken seriously, I meant that it is barely adequate as a scoop for corn. The weight of the scoop also takes a minute amount of energy to move and I see it as dead weight, but that comment is also facetious.
For air to be compressed by the air in front of it you would rely on the weight of the air ahead to force air into the opening, nature does not do that and keeps everything in balance, nature hates vacuums and compressed air. Air rushes in to fill low pressures, it does not rush in to make pressure zones.
I also fail to see how a round filter behind the radiator can benefit from any so called ram air. CAI's have the ability to provide more than enough air, that is their benefit. Air filters are a detriment to the free flow of air.
Air inlets on race cars and jet engines have scoops big enough for the demand of air required to burn the fuel, Jet engines operate at altitudes with much less dense air but at those speeds the engine scoops up more than enough. At speeds that warm the leading edge from air friction ram air comes into the equation, I guess that the air cannot move out of the way fast enough and creates pressure, ram air.
 

Last edited by onehundred80; 05-02-2010 at 04:00 PM.
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