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Starts only on second try but has more issues

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Old 08-04-2020 | 06:07 AM
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From: lemoore, California
Unhappy Starts only on second try but has more issues

What's up guys!!!!!
Normally I never post or even have to cause every problem iv ever had with my Crossfire has already been answered on here, but I've got a weird thing going on and I want to pick your brains an see what you think. Its a case of a jealous car is what im going with.

SO.... I was headed to the Bay area at night (about a 3 hour drive up the I-5) and an hour into the drive I hit a pothole from hell on Cali's shitty *** roads so hard it snapped my rear NEEDSWINGS camber arm sending my car into a death shake @ 80MPH **** ME. Luckily was able to get it to the median without crashing and there were no cars around me to hit so thankful, but she was hurt pretty good. I had it towed back to where im stationed cause I knew was going to be awhile to get the new parts for the new camber arm. Also had to replace rear strut and new rear tires as they were about due. Took about 2 weeks to get the camber arms so the car sat for about 3 weeks in total. In that time I bought a new car 2017 MB C300 but planned on driving the Xfire back and forth to base and around town so I was so excited to get her back. BUT…. FIRST thing I noticed as I picked the car up was it died on the first start she ran for a second then died. try again fired up fine and runs fine. SECOND thing I noticed the RAD fan went strait to 99% and wont go off until I turn the car off. THIRD thing is no A/C and iv never had an issue with my ice cold A/C the central valley is steady 100F+ right now so that's a no go. Talk to my mechanic and we ran a few tests found out one of the coolant temp sensors was reading -600C but my temp gauge is working fine.... said there has to be two sensors and one is bad??? can only find one sensor. I ordered new coolant temp sensor and a used Fan control Module. Just got the FCM today swapped it and went to start...….DEAD BATTERY but it only sat 2 days???? swapped battery to a known good one and again starts fine for a second then dies... start the second time fires up and runs, Fan goes strait to 99%. NOT THE FCM...… then I noticed the key fob wont lock my doors did a fob reset works first try after reset then wont work again till I reset the fob again and repeats with same outcome. Go to lock the doors from the drivers side door as it should lock all the doors.... NO longer works only locks drivers door. Try to unlock all doors by turned to unlock twice.....NOTHING.

Going to pull the RCM tomorrow and see if the relays are worn, all the fuses check good. I have a feeling the shop jumped my car and it caused a short and my biggest worry is the ECU my be damaged but I have NO CODES NO LIGHTS no stored codes on the ECU either and the car fires good and sounds fine besides these problems. I don't know what is draining the battery either. I know about the SKREEM module but its not showing exact symptoms it starts second try every time I go to start but if I turn it off and go to start again fires first try. IM STUMMPED. Shop is good shop owned by close friend so I trust him but Xfire are tricky. What do you guys think???? I feel like she's jealous of the MB and that's why she's mad at me but I still want her!!!! lol

2007 Crossfire coupe base model 150,000 Miles
Thanks everyone!!!



 
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Old 08-04-2020 | 11:28 AM
ala_xfire's Avatar
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From: Lineville, AL
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

Since your Crossfire is obviously female, you should introduce the MB as a male.
Seriously, go check the locking pump module under the trunk carpet passenger side for any signs of water.
 
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Old 08-04-2020 | 11:39 AM
ZERACER's Avatar
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From: Orange County CA.
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

It sounds like RCM symptoms. Buy a new one and send your old one to TJ, then keep it as a spare. The fan is typical RCM..
 
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Old 08-04-2020 | 12:25 PM
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JSK
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From: Mesa Arizona
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

If you turn the key to the run position and wait what does the fan do?
 
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Old 08-04-2020 | 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

Alright, morning up date just got home from work tired as hell so I haven't pulled the RCM out yet, but I went ahead and told her the MB was a dude and she was mistaken told her I still loved her smacked her *** and turned the key......... SHE STARTED FIRST TIME!!! Didnt die right away. We're getting somewhere!
So I turned it off and switched to key to the ON position an waited all the dash lights are on. No fan movement only the relays clicking and fuel pump priming. Mine is a 6MT and the next notch is the run position idk if the AT are different at all when it come to key position.
Checked the trunk no water damage. Wasn't expecting anything seeing as the central valley is dry AF right now and no liquids have been back there. So locking pump is GOOD.
UPDATE!!$$$
​​​​
As the Xfire is running and the fan is at warp speed if I turn the A/C off and leave the air running just the blower motor pushing air out of the vents, the fan spools down to nothing 0%. Turn the air OFF back to hyper drive the fan goes. As for the key FOB working SOL still. Maybe the new battery helped the start tho cleared away some of the Gremlins. Tell me what you think about the cabin air on RAD fan off thing........ Still thinking RCM? I already did the RCM fix more than 6 months ago and all the relays looked great but again that was more that 6 months ago. Later tonight il pull the RCM out and look at it when my brain gets some rest.

A/C ON fan running = RAD fan 99%
A/C OFF fan running = RAD fan 0%
A/C OFF and Fan OFF= RAD fan 99%
Car OFF key in ON position fan ON or OFF A/C ON or OFF= RAD fan 0%
AIr vents still blowing HOT *** air still = priceless .......?

Thanks everyone,
Tadd
2007 crossfire coupe base 6MT 150,000 miles
​​​​​
 
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Old 08-04-2020 | 01:51 PM
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Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues


Shes a turd but she's my turd....
 
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Old 08-04-2020 | 04:07 PM
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From: Orange County CA.
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

My guess is still RCM.
 
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Old 10-07-2020 | 04:52 PM
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From: lemoore, California
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

Still looking for help on this one, basically iv replaced the following parts
-fan control module
- pulses control module
- RCM
- car battery twice
The car sat at my mechanics for little over a month trying to track down the problem and still no solution.
​​​​​​
​​​​​​My main issue is the battery drain. If the car is not started every day it dies and I jump it drive it around/ let it run for a few hours to get a bit of a charge, then the cycle starts over. Iv started just unplugging the battery at this point. Iv read wires and we don't see where the power is being pulled from. Or what's not turning off.

The A/C will not engage untill the car has been ran for about an hour and the car like magic acts perfect sometimes 10 mins or sometimes till I turn the car off. Then it start over.

Do you think this is a body control module issue? I have an 2007 have read the bcm is not self learning for this year?

I'm at a loss at this point. BCM or ECU are the only two things I haven't touched but I don't have the equipment to program eaither one. Any help I would much appreciate!!!

​​​​

​​
 
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Old 10-07-2020 | 05:12 PM
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From: Orange County CA.
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

Have you disconnected or replaced the siren alarm ? The batteries leak acid and short out the siren causing battery dran and possable starting issues. It is located under the cowl in front of the windshield. Do a search of alarm siren on this site.
 
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Old 10-07-2020 | 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

Originally Posted by thickey892
​​​​​​
​​​​​​My main issue is the battery drain. If the car is not started every day it dies and I jump it drive it around/ let it run for a few hours to get a bit of a charge, then the cycle starts over. Iv started just unplugging the battery at this point. Iv read wires and we don't see where the power is being pulled from. Or what's not turning off.

Do you think this is a body control module issue? I have an 2007 have read the bcm is not self learning for this year?

​​
1) BCMs are not programmed, they are essentially generic.
2) I don't think the BCM is involved in this.
3) I strongly suspect the battery drain is connected to this. I'd track that down first and see where things go from there. Stop screwing around, MEASURE the current flow and find where it is going.


 
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Old 10-15-2020 | 06:41 AM
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From: lemoore, California
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

Originally Posted by ZERACER
Have you disconnected or replaced the siren alarm ? The batteries leak acid and short out the siren causing battery dran and possable starting issues. It is located under the cowl in front of the windshield. Do a search of alarm siren on this site.
I have read about the alarm problems and the rabbit hole of the panic bottom issues the cars have. Though haven't thought that it may be my issue I will search this up now. Its not far fetch about the acid at all I have made 2 deployments with this car put into storage, first one 7 months battery disconnected but left in second deployment 10 months with same battery so very likely acid has made it way down there il do my research on this thanks.
 
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Old 10-15-2020 | 06:49 AM
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From: lemoore, California
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

Originally Posted by pizzaguy
1) BCMs are not programmed, they are essentially generic.
2) I don't think the BCM is involved in this.
3) I strongly suspect the battery drain is connected to this. I'd track that down first and see where things go from there. Stop screwing around, MEASURE the current flow and find where it is going.
I think im just going to take it do the dealer ha ha ha jk
sounds like its time to start pulling fuzes again. il keep you posted when I get back into town few months from now, sadly I haven't been able to do much recently due to work. thank you for your input.
 
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Old 10-15-2020 | 11:25 AM
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Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

Here is your "Find my battery drain" procedure:

1) Open hood.
2) Take key out of ignition.
3) Close glove box door, trunk lid and both doors.
4) Take battery ground cable off.
5) Insert meter between battery post and ground cable, set to 10amp scale.
6) Observe current reading (it will be .1 to .3 amps, if it is zero, you don't have the meter connected or configured properly).
Do not continue until you get a reading on the meter.
7) WAIT THREE MINUTES - the current reading will go down, as modules hibernate.
8) AFTER THREE MINUTES - any current reading over 55mA (.055 amp) is a problem.

If you have too much current, start pulling fuses until the current drops below .055 amp - Pulling some fuses will cause the current to go UP, this is due to 'waking' a module somewhere, wait three minutes and it should go back down, only then believe the reading on the meter.

If NO fuse causes the current to go down enough, in the little black box next to battery (size of a pack of cigarettes):
9) --- Remove one 50 amp fuse that goes to engine fan - it is labeled.
If that does not do it:
10) --- Remove other 50 amp fuse, that goes to brake controller - it is labeled.
If that does not do it:
11) --- Remove 200 amp fuse that feeds entire car. (If that does it, we need to talk!)
If that does not do it:
12) --- Remove BIG red cable from back of alternator - if that does it, you need a new alternator (or get the one you have rebuilt, but make sure the guy knows it has a bad diode(s) ).
If that does not do it:
You need real help. My rate is $100 per hour plus $1600 travel expenses. (You should report the car stolen at this point.)
 
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Old 10-16-2020 | 06:07 PM
thickey892's Avatar
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From: lemoore, California
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

Originally Posted by pizzaguy
Here is your "Find my battery drain" procedure:

1) Open hood.
2) Take key out of ignition.
3) Close glove box door, trunk lid and both doors.
4) Take battery ground cable off.
5) Insert meter between battery post and ground cable, set to 10amp scale.
6) Observe current reading (it will be .1 to .3 amps, if it is zero, you don't have the meter connected or configured properly).
Do not continue until you get a reading on the meter.
7) WAIT THREE MINUTES - the current reading will go down, as modules hibernate.
8) AFTER THREE MINUTES - any current reading over 55mA (.055 amp) is a problem.

If you have too much current, start pulling fuses until the current drops below .055 amp - Pulling some fuses will cause the current to go UP, this is due to 'waking' a module somewhere, wait three minutes and it should go back down, only then believe the reading on the meter.

If NO fuse causes the current to go down enough, in the little black box next to battery (size of a pack of cigarettes):
9) --- Remove one 50 amp fuse that goes to engine fan - it is labeled.
If that does not do it:
10) --- Remove other 50 amp fuse, that goes to brake controller - it is labeled.
If that does not do it:
11) --- Remove 200 amp fuse that feeds entire car. (If that does it, we need to talk!)
If that does not do it:
12) --- Remove BIG red cable from back of alternator - if that does it, you need a new alternator (or get the one you have rebuilt, but make sure the guy knows it has a bad diode(s) ).
If that does not do it:
You need real help. My rate is $100 per hour plus $1600 travel expenses. (You should report the car stolen at this point.)
Alright so I got lucky and my buddy is helping me out back home. This is what we found. With the multimeter connected and the car in hibernation it's pulling .538 DC (forgive me if we **** this up were aircraft hydraulic mechanic we don't deal with readying wires much) so we stared pulling fuses no big drops till I get to fuse 35. Radio frequency remote control, hazards, interment cluster and climate control. We pull that fuse and big drop to .007 DC. With fuse removed the car will not start and as expected no instrument cluster or hazards.

Uppon reconnecting and disconnecting he said he found a click that sounds like a circuit open or closing and started the car wahla A/C. Turn it off back to issues repeat disconnecting and reconnecting the battery untill the click is heard and A/C works and no issues starting. The click is not the RCM as the sound

rather is coming from passenger side of engine around the 3 coil packs I'm told but can't pin point exactly cause almost sounds internal I guess. So that's are findings let me know if you can think of anything or more to try and I'm going to try and find what fuse 35 exactly powers..




 

Last edited by thickey892; 10-16-2020 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 10-16-2020 | 09:15 PM
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From: Fort Worth, Texas
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

Find junction S212, take the nut off and find out which of leads the current is flowing to.
Yea, not gonna be easy to find... Damn.

I believe S212 is under the fuse panel, you pry the platform the fuses sit in from the front of the fuse box, lift it up and away.
Underneath, there are a few studs with a lot of wires on them. ONE of them is S212. This post is also called out in the service manual but I cant find it right now.



 
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Old 10-16-2020 | 09:19 PM
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From: Fort Worth, Texas
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

Notice all those wires are Red with Yellow stripe (at least in the 2005 SRT Roadster service manual). They just HAD to make EVERY wire the same color.
Germans are such asshats.
 
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Old 10-16-2020 | 09:26 PM
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From: Indialantic Fl.
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

I had a drain of 1.53 on a car the same as the limited c320 .. disconnect your seats ,,under the seat one at a time and check the drain.
let me know if this is the b att drain problem! jim
oh! after i dis connect the pass seat i had a batt drain of .0035 ((((normal)))
 
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Old 10-16-2020 | 10:18 PM
thickey892's Avatar
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From: lemoore, California
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

Originally Posted by amx1397
I had a drain of 1.53 on a car the same as the limited c320 .. disconnect your seats ,,under the seat one at a time and check the drain.
let me know if this is the b att drain problem! jim
oh! after i dis connect the pass seat i had a batt drain of .0035 ((((normal)))
Are you talking about electric seats? If so I'm in the clear on that one cause living the base model life lol
 
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Old 10-16-2020 | 10:25 PM
thickey892's Avatar
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From: lemoore, California
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

Originally Posted by pizzaguy
Notice all those wires are Red with Yellow stripe (at least in the 2005 SRT Roadster service manual). They just HAD to make EVERY wire the same color.
Germans are such asshats.
I came across this gem, says s212 is behind the cluster? Where do you think under fuse box first or cluster?

 
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Old 10-16-2020 | 10:29 PM
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From: Ontario
Default Re: Starts only on second try but has more issues

Originally Posted by pizzaguy
Notice all those wires are Red with Yellow stripe (at least in the 2005 SRT Roadster service manual). They just HAD to make EVERY wire the same color.
Germans are such asshats.
They all come from a red/yellow wire so why make them a different colour?
They are extensions of the red/yellow wire.
 

Last edited by onehundred80; 10-17-2020 at 10:23 PM.


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