Would you be able to circle where I would be looking? I just want to be able to collect all the information so I can get back and try it straight away. Thank you. I have attached an image.

 

I'll take a good picture when I go home for lunch in an hour or so.

 

See what you wrote in the beginning? The car quit on you - that has nothing to to with the starter.

While it IS true you COULD have two problems that happened near the same time, 30 years of electronic troubleshooting (that is how I earned my living) tells me: NO. It is not two problems.

Well, not likely.

I have not met anyone who know these cars' electronics like 'the kid' does (Josh), and he and I are saying the same thing.


If you loose power from the "Engine control relay" the car will quit. Also, the starter won't engage - and this is exactly what you are describing. It is very possible that the Engine Control Relay's contacts are pitted and crappy - that - or you have a bad solder connection on the RCB.

I WISH one of these cars would do this close to me, so I could go work on it - I MISS diagnosing electrical and electronic problems!

 

I'll bring the wife's roadster to the Dragon.. interior lights won't turn off..

 

I agree, it's possible that they both died, but we both highly doubt it.

One guy had some serious issues with the air pump relay recently, maybe the same deal but for the fuel pump or something? It would be nice to hold it and look at the sucker.

 

Don't feel bad, I'm a little confused also. Looking at the starting circuit on page 8F-42 in the 2005 FSM I see a violet wire coming from 1F on the Pulse Module, through C106 (bulkhead conn) and to the starter solenoid coil (50). Doesn't this wire need 12v applied to spin the starter or is the diagram wrong ? YWTK


.
Looks like if you ground C4-25 on the PCM it will do nothing at best and short out the ignition switch at worst. Am I missing something ?

 

The diagrams are usually wrong. You'll learn a lot if you do the opposite of what Chrysler's manual says.

And actually this one's not. If you look at the starter solenoid internal schematics it says that VT/WT wire pulls the relay low to engage power to the starter...

 

On most starters the solenoid is mounted on the starter and you apply power to the "S" terminal. This energizes a coil which physically moves a link that extends the Bendix into contact with the ring gear (flywheel) teeth. When it reaches the end of its travel a large disk makes contact with a terminal in the cap that provides power to the starter motor.


A few (Ford) use a separate solenoid mounted on the fenderwell however the text on page 8F-44 sounds like it is the first type.
"This electromechanical switch connects and disconnects the feed of battery voltage to the starter motor and actuates a shift fork that engages and disengages the starter pinion gear with the starter ring gear."


Further this sounds like you apply 12v to the solenoid and not ground:
"3. Connect a suitable volt-ampere tester and a 12-volt battery to the starter motor in series, and set the ammeter
to the 100 ampere scale. See the instructions provided by the manufacturer of the volt-ampere tester being used.
4. Install a jumper wire from the solenoid terminal to the solenoid battery terminal. The starter motor should operate.
If the starter motor fails to operate, replace the faulty starter motor assembly."


Now if this is not how it works, I will defer to someone who has practical experience. I have a lot of experience with starters (spent five years with Delco Remy) but not with Crossfires specifically and can always learn.


On some cars I could just bridge the big power and the "S" contact with a key and spin the starter.

 

Lol let's put it this way... I have jumped my starter by applying the solenoid to ground maybe 600 times during my swap. Bob (LantanaTX) who could only start his V8 by jumping the starter, applied the same wire, but at the pulse control module to.. you guessed it. Ground.

Jim over in PA thought as I did, that if we jumped the starter like Bob it would start. How did he pull the wire? Low.

If you spend 5 seconds on the schematics without overthinking it you would say, pull that sumbeech low.

 

And keep in mind that the diagrams are pretty complete when it comes to the BCM, but when it comes to the PTCM and Pulse module, a lot is missing.
The diagrams show two wires to the Pulse Module, but that is way off.

Our "service manual" is not a real service manual.

 

Sounds English: put the fuse on the ground side so the component will protect it. Solenoid just needs 12v, doesn't really matter which is ground but the motor better have the polarity right


ps when I spent $60 for the '07 FSM I thought about another $90 for the Wiring manual but decided against.

 

No neet to protect anything when grounding that wire. It's protected already by the pulse module. The ECU literally only grounds it, nothing else.

Good thing you didn't, it's horrible. The Mercedes diagrams are much harder to read, but it's because they're that much more thorough.

 

WIRING MANUAL?

See, I'd buy the wiring manual way sooner than I'd buy the service manual.

In fact, I had no idea one existed - where do I go to order it?

 

I have no clue lol. It comes with DAS, it's called StarFinder.

 

Same place you get all CJF manuals, Techauthority (https://www.techauthority.com/en-US/Pages/ItemDetail.aspx?itemID=10124) (embedded links not working).


Don't be surprised at the 30% surcharge for SH&T.

 

Unreasonable prices? Why would that surprise me with something Crossfire related?

(They warned me about that, right here, on this forum, before I even bought the Red one....)

 

RUnning for my wallet and credit cards right now!

THANKS!

 

24.19% actually - but if it has in it what I want, it's worth the $117.24 that it came to.
This thread may or may not help the OP, but it sure helped me!

 

Oh these are cheap, I paid $165 for the FSM CD for my '12 heep. $65 for the one for my '07 was a bargain (and needed for a description of how to remove the knee air bags). It was just the surcharges that were a surprise.


Part of the reason I chose a Crossfire was for all the literature the forum had collected and the level of tech possessed by the members. Reatta forum is similar with an incredible amount of scanned literature available (and blessing from GM legal).


Also because it is a two seater with a six and a manual trans and a/c that works (and about the same price as a really nice Fiero GT with 5spd)


Now just need to get the gearing straightened out (2k at 70 mph is right for Florida) and a seat that is shaped the same as I am (was the interior designed by Hobbits ?). Minor things.

 

Get more for your money and just pay the $7.95 once.
The manuals and where to purchase them came up on another thread today.
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