I have been reading the posts over the last few weeks, as I am sure most of you have done as well. I think it is time for us to decide how and what we want this forum to be. I have asked the moderators to intervene and was told that in their opinion there was not really a problem.

I respectfully have to disagree. If we let this petty bickering, foul language, and indecent posting of pictures take take over this foum, it will simply fall apart, because pandering to the lowest common denominator lowers, rather than raises the standards by which people should act towards each other. I truly believe that crude langauge and pictures are NOT acceptable in this type of a format.

Here is my reasoning:

1. Except for the people that have met each other on Hook Ups or Cross Ups, etc. we do not really know each other. Telling a personal friend to "F**k O**" or "Kiss My A**" can be accepted, because they can see the facial expressions or body language that goes along with it. They know it is not really meant and/or done in fun. But when that is done in writing, to basically a complete stranger, those words are taken literally, and escalate into post after post of increasingly abusive and threatening language. I was raised in a family and in a time where if you made a threat, you better be ready to act on it. I am beginning to be a bit concerned that it will not take much more of a push, and you may see that happen. I am sure I will be told that I am being silly in my line of thought, but pick up any newspaper and read an article on the front page. People hurt each other for far less reasons...

2. I do not agree that ignorance is bliss. Just ignoring those that behave in an inappropriate way sometimes makes them more bold, because they know that no one is going to say anything to stop them. In my opinion, that is exactly what has happened here. There was also a post saying to just skip over the posts you find offensive. OK, but how are we to do that when the threads go wildly off topic? By the time I think I should get out of a thread, I have already read postings that I find offensive.

3. I thought that this forum was going to be above this sort of childish behavior, but I guess I was mistaken. There are ways to get your point across without resorting to threats of violence and abuse. Just take your time, think it through, and then post it. I can state that I am not alone in my thinking here. I have received quite a few PM's and e-mails talking about this problem.

Discussing the problems is only half the issue. There have to be some possible solutions. Here are mine:

1. The moderators obviously will not take action unless they are personally contacted. I submit that as soon as a truly abusive, threatening, or obscene post has been made that they be contacted. We have been told that they do not wish to be "mommy and daddy", but as moderators they have a duty to keep this forum civil. That is part of the job. And the reasoning that we are already better than most other forums is just unacceptable. A "C" grade is not good enough. We should have an "A".

2. There should be a "three strikes and you are out" rule. After three warnings, the abuser should be removed from the forum. How many times do you think that would have to happen before everone got the picture that rudeness will simply not be tolerated. And I do not agree that "gee, he usually has some good ideas, so we should let him go..." line of thought should be accepted either. If you can't express yourself in a group of words that are generally accepted to be civil, then don't say anything. If you want to be rude, do it with your friends in a place where that is acceptable, not in an open, public forum.

3. Maybe there should be an additional forum added called "Anything Goes". If people want to get into wild and rude arguments, that is the place to go. Then the rest of us could ignore that completely.

Those are my thoughts and ideas. I hope it creates some meaningful discussion. If I am wrong, tell me, and tell me why. I am open to that. If I am completely off base, and I am incorrect in my assumption that there are others that feel the same way as I do, that is fine as well. I will then have to find another area to talk to people about my Crossfire.

I usually apologize when I get this wordy. Not this time. I felt it was neseccary to say what I had to say.

Finally, rather than telling someone that "you are an old f'kg retarded a** wipe, and I will kick you in the n*ts when I see you", try something along these lines, It is much more effective, has some humor, and would be hard to be called offensive:

I find your utter lack of intelligence in this matter to be very disturbing. You have made no points that could be defended and provided no facts to back anything up. It is obvious that you might have had a better chance had your father continued his relationship with the sheep, instead of marrying his cousin.

Have a great weekend everyone!

 

Here here. Totally agree. I don't look at these forums as much as I used to mainly because it is filling up with rubbish. If it continuies this way it will fall apart.

 

sadly this is true of all forums, everyone i have been invloved in has gone through good and bad patches, people come and go, its just a mirror of life but with an edge that only being "online" can bring.

There is no easy fix, like extra forums (the right place for an argument) as row's start where and when something flares up, the trick is to just remember it's not that important no ones going to die from a forum.....

Now having a buzzing left speaker now thats a different issue!

LP

 

The forum was once like this ... remember I am rather veteran on here also JSISA ... its not only my humor that has interacted into these strange ways... its the change over time of forums... if any of you have talked on large forums over time ... small skirmishs have always existed... and these grow to literally divisions in the forum... you can see it on the Rx8 site... the 350z forums... and many and many others... hell go on some Merc forums... they get plain NASTY! ... when I was on in Feburary there was a small amount of forum users still.. back in the day when WM used to post daily .. now we lack the knowledge of a amazing Xfire owner because he also... has became uninterested in much of the discussions....

if you look at the posts of the older days.. and the posts now... a lot of the subjects have turned to general discussion rather then our days of "how to make us better" and "how to make the car better"...

It seems that many of the users here feel they are "Better" then the average Xfire owner... well let me tell you... I know I am not better then any one of you users here... many of you like Landho and WM would whoop my *** in a race... and Benz would whoop my *** in a fight!... and Tdancer would have me thrown in jail by some CIA security officer! .... everyone has their own traits on here... and what they enjoy... lately people have been getting slammed for ideas they propose as what they enjoy and love! ... I miss the days of wanting to get on to read posts... not wanting to get on so I can make a new picture about how AZ is a tard...

Its not that anyone needs to grow up... its the fact we will face that this forum will expand and expand... and there will be no way of control the atmosphere anymore... other then heavy moderating... and let me tell you... forums that are heavy modded are just plain boring... having spice can always be fun... and if someone takes something they are called on here to heart... wow... I guess you were picked on as a child in school or something... and I guess you've never played a game online...

so sit back... and enjoy the evolution of what can not be stopped... the forum will continue to grow... just as the amount of Xfire owners do... Does this make me happy? ... not really... I like my small grp of people... but lately its gone from small to huge... with tons of changes...

Gonna have to put up with it... and I can always count on posting all my funny comments on all the other forums I am a member of...

 

jsisabella - what if you were made moderator? You think that would solve all the problems? I've pitched it to Jullian. We'll see what he says.

One thing you must remember, your opinion is your opinion. When you are the moderator you have to keep everyone happy. So far it is only 3 - 5 people tops who have complained about how the forums are. This is out of 2,405 users.

Lordpercy is right. It is just the way forums are. You have your good days and you have your bad. Just the way life is.

 

I have been on a forum that was overmoderated before. People just stop posting.

We have had very few incidents here and some that where allowed to run fixed themselves like they would in real life if we worked together. All of the squabble over some a couple of bad posts just drags out resentment and grudges even more (yes, I am sure my post did not help). Just let it be, it's over, let go.

-marc

 

I would like a respond to this thread as a new user. I have found most of the people on this forum to be interesting and intellectually stimulating. Yes, different views and different modes of articulation. I have enjoyed the Off Topic Threads, the comments invoked, and the humor and, at times, sarcasm that users have posted. Most importantly, however, I have been impressed with the phenomenal job the moderators have done and, in my opinion, the core group of users who seem to hold the forum together. Odd how it reads like a family diary.

I agree with jsisabella that some of the responses have been below the normal order of quality, perhaps those unwilling to cease should be dropped from the forum. On the other hand, I have found that angry people when ignored on forums disappear rather quickly. Ignore the silly comments and foolish responses and continue to post experiences about the Crossfire. And please, do not resign in frustration for I have much to learn from your collective experiences (i.e., Crossfire et al)

 

I think you babies should stop this nonsense...just kidding.

I agree, I'm a moderator in a Mexican Forum and I have to keep everyone happy, but when happy means offensive and useless to the topic I just delete or edit the post and warn the "poster".

We do enforce a Three Strike Rule and that's been good for us.

 

RULE #1.Thall shall not do to other XF owners that they would not want done to them selves !

RULE#2.See rule number 1.

 

DFWSBR is a Moderator on only two of the sections of the board. Other than Julian (mightyjlr), there are no moderators on the other sections of the forum, and we've seen how little time Julian is able to devote to the forum or shop recently. I hope everything is okay with him.

One moderator is not enough now that the forum has grown as busy as it has. There needs to be several, and a "Moderator's Only" forum, where the moderators as a group can decide on actions to take, avoiding the "one person's opinion" issues that arise if there's only one moderator.

 

I dont know... Forums with moderators usually end up being not only boring but lacking the EVERY day use that this forum pulls in...

Has me and AZ really shut down this forum or something? ... I mean come on... if you didnt like the post... you just click the one below it... it was not like you HAD to be involved this the debate....

I dont see how adding more mods... and adding more rules will subject ourselves from arguing... I know if I was threatened with a "slap on the wrist" everytime I posted something someone didnt like... that would make me want to stop posting completely... usually people dont take well to punishment like we were in school or something...

We all know these rules...
There are no racial comments...
There are no "sexual" comments...
There are no sexual or distrubing pictures...
and everyone follows the main rules such as these...
but swear and just down right arguing ... that should be punished IMO...

I must be from a different generation... because I do talk with my parents with the same voice I use on here... I know when to act PC and when I can relax... and I was hoping this site was a place to relax in...

 

Ditto Boba !

 

Agreed,

Usually the people that are around the most are picked as moderators on most boards. The problem is that once you are a moderator you really have to change they type of stuff you would normally post in content and replies. You have to be politically correct, can't take side, have to bite your tounge and can never post anything that can be taken the wrong way. This lowers the amount of posts the user has and certainly robs us of one of our internet personalites that makes the forum fun.

I have been a moderator of another site representing a manufacture and after that I could never post reviews or my feelings on other products. I just sounded like bashing and a one sided opinion. In the end I only posted if the subject went way off subject (asking them to open another thread as the discussion was in a speciality thread), posting announcment or answering direct questoins about products or links to the information they could not find.

A solution we have found on one of the forums I am on is to have a "Moderators" login. This means that you could have however many moderators you trust and give them the login id and password. The person ca then log in as username "Moderators" and do what they need to do. This way it does not effect their personal login and posting. To pull it off we did have a private moderators bucket that we would post what we did and why. In some cases the entire thread would be moved into the private section for a review untill a consensus was made of what action to take even if it was just to move it back untouched.

hope this helps,

-marc

 

not a bad idea Drunk... but like you said... we dont want to shut down the every day talking and view points that have become so frequent on here! thats a key focus I believe is to keep the people happy on here that are used to just talking and arguing... even if they get out of hand... they dont spread out of the thread they are on... so we should worry... but if the arguements go from one thread to another... this will be interrupting the process of posting and should be deleted and modded...

 

boba... thank you for removing my avatar you altered from your signature. In the future when we disagree, I hope we can keep it civil and not get out of hand as it has in the past.

 

Thats fine but lets keep this to the subject of how we can all improve the forum and keep it from expanding into something we do not want...

its VERY hard to control peoples influence on the forum... one person can alter the entire form of the community we enjoy... remember James... some hated him and some just liked to have that opinion around... we still talk about him... that ONE person changed a lot...

ALWAYS keep that in mind when we think about "silencing" a voice... because one person can do a lot...

Just because one person likes to talk a certain way or disagree about a certain topic... we do not want to remove them IMO...

I think the set rules should be like I posted before... the racial and sexual comments... those things hurt people.... a #$@#@#@ #@#@#$@ you $@#$@#$@ I hate @#$@#$@ ... that doesnt harm anyone... you can call me a donkey's behind and I really could careless... and I think it would be hillarious if you put a picture of a donkey... with my name tattooed on his behind... because to me... HUMOR is a large part of a forum...

but what does everyone think about the pictures... no more of that ever? ... Forums have always been based around the picture concept... at least the ones I've been on...

everyone got a kick out of the Anti-James avatar...

 

That could have been a PM.. lets not try to start more issues. Thanks.

 

see... #@!% like this is definately needed... and it doesnt hurt anyone!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

DFWBSR, could we come to an understanding, please? I don't need to be reminded of how to post after everything that has already transpired within this forum, especially after the lack of moderation while it was going on and things were allowed to get way out of hand. Therefore, I believe my post more than fits into this thread.

My post was not meant to be a PM and it is not an issue unless someone wants to make it one. It was a first step and a "publicly" extended truce to an individual in this forum for ALL to see just as they've seen what lead up to it. I learned a long ago, the best way to end a confrontation is to be the first to extend a hand, which I have done. If it is not taken... at least I offered and everyone will know it.

This will be my last post on the entire topic.

Thank you and kind regards.

 

I hardly know where to start. I saw about a gazillion quotes I would like to put in my reply - but I don't want to make any of my comments toward any one - so I will just add my 2 cents worth.

The rules we agreed to when we registered for the forum state that there will be no abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, or sexually-oriented material. If you do post the above, you may immediately be banned from the forum.

What happened to those rules? I thought that was the type of forum I was going to join, and for the most part, it has been. I do not believe that by stopping the obscenities and abusive language it would be over-moderated at all (implying less people would post). I feel the opposite, I am sometimes afraid to post because someone is going to come flying at me and calling me anobscene name and posting a less than desirable picture of me or CEE BEE. I would like to voice my opinion and not have to worry if I should even look at the thread later on. I know of other forums where you cannot step out of line and they are very active forums. This forum has been so much fun and I personally have met such nice people that I would never have met had it not been for this forum. But when I am reading a topic and come across words and pictures and suggestions that are so offensive, it takes the fun away.

Yes - there have been plenty of disagreements - that is normal. But the language should not be tolerated. I agree with the 3 Strike rule. If someone cannot post responsibly, they should not be allowed to post any more.

I also believe that perhaps we do need more moderators. It may be too much for one or two people to handle. It is the moderators position to keep this forum civil. It was mentioned that there are over 2,400 members and only a handful of complaints. Well, come on....2,400 members and what - 30 Very Active Posters??? So a handful of complaints out of 30 - 50 Active Posters is a pretty big percentage actually. And some do not complain because they probably figure it will not do any good.

Well - I said I wanted to add my 2 cents. Guess it ended up being my 50 cents. Thank you, jsisabella, for bringing this topic up. It was long overdue to be discussed.