Guys,
Ive worked out why these things go wrong on our beloved cars mechanically and electrically ......

it's simple . . . . .The Engine God hates us..... well, me any way !!!
the Chinese seam to have a God for each thing in their lives, maybe there is a motoring God, and we do NOT please him by bringing Hyundai cars into existance ????
Maybe we do not beg our cars enough, or pray to God that they keep working ?

Maybe there should be a Pagan ritual sacrifice of cheap Japanese motors each year to please the Big Guy ???



ALSO
and I heard a unique theory re all things electrical that fail...

IE if you get a wire burnout !!!

it turns out that all this Amps x Volts = Watts theory, is a load of bollox.....

We're all wrong....and have been for many decades.....
I'm reliably told that its all to do with the insulation of a piece of wire and it's ability to keep the smoke contained......
If the insulation fails on a bit of wire... the smoke escapes..... more wire, more insulation and ... hey-presto, the smoke cannot escape and the device keeps working...
Keep the smoke contained and we're all ok for ever more !!!!

Stands to reason, when the insulation fails, the smoke belches out ????

The worst part about theory's is that not all of them a true, but hey, don't give up a good theory just cos it aint true......

Keep smiling, have a great day gents.

Grant B

 

Never have a problem. I understand Lucas, Bosch and Marellii. They too are controlled by Ohm. Spent my life fixing them. gary

 

Owned four British cars (two current). If you say you understand Lucas, you're it. My experience--it warrants the label "Prince of Darkness."

 

I have been here a while ago concerning a drain on my battery. Dealer did tests, determined it was fuse 5 and I should get a new radio. Well, radio works but, door locks do not. Dealer says it must be the amplifier in the radio. Since then, I have sent the radio away to be tested and everything in the radio works. So, logic tells me it could be in the wiring to the door locks. My concern is as follows, can anyone give me some hints on removing the door panels? And, put them back and do it CORRECTLY! Any other ideas where the short/drain might be?
I had the car in storage for 2 1/2 months. Cars started easily when I took it out of storage. After sitting two more weeks, the battery was dead. Recharged and it is holding a charge now. Radio is still not in the car. Does anyone know what circuits fuse #5 serves?
I would really appreciate any help!
Thanks,
gcongle

 

Fuse #4 in the engine control block ( the black thing in front of the battery ) feeds the ignition switch. The ignition switch in turn supplies voltage to fuse #5 in the under hood fuse panel, which then feeds the radio. Since this is a SWITCHED fuse, I really don't see how there is any power to it with the ignition off, unless there is a problem with the ignition switch.

Fuse #8 in the under hood fuse panel is always hot, and it feeds the radio.
Perhaps therein lies the conundrum ......

 

If the locks do not work then I would check out the air pump/security module in the trunk on the passenger side under the foam block. Any water leaks into this area will eventually ruin this module and cause no end of problems.
You can remove the trunk mat and peer down the front side of the foam, serious water levels can be spotted. Less water requires the five trunk panels, two on each side and the rear one, to be removed and the foam block lifted out. More brutish members here have cut the block up in place and removed it in pieces, not for me but doable I guess.

All the locks are operated by air and vacuum, the security system would use wires for the sensors. So the door locks themselves would not cause a drain n the battery, but the module in the trunk has a lot of wires going to it and water inside the module would cause havoc in the locking/security system.

 

Thanks for all of the information. Received the radio yesterday and reinstalled, works fine, no problems were detected with the radio. In looking in the trunk and thinking about the water problem, i have not driven the car in the rain at all during the last three years of my ownership. The previous owner had some problems with the speakers in the door. I thought there might have been a problem caused in the auto. door locks wiring during the door panel removal and reinstallation. Who knows??
You also mentioned, or someone did, it could be in the ignition switch. Any info on how to take a look at the ignition switch? It looks like there is an entire panel under dash that needs to be removed. Can the switch be removed by simply pulling it out of the dash? Some sort of release mechanism?
Again, thanks for any information.
gcongle

 

search for "sticky key fix" - there is a write-up and pictures that will lead you to the ignition switch removal. ( probably need to do this fix anyway, if you haven't already )
https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...key-fix_v2.pdf

 

Holy Kaputska!!! Is there any way of telling whether, or not, the ignition switch is the culprit before if tackle this job? Do I need to remove the seat in order to do this? I have a bad back and an artificial knee. Is there a suggestion as to what order of elimination I should go threw to isolate the problem? I love the car, but this makes me wonder what I got myself into.
Seriously, I don't want to do the ignition removal until I absolutely have to.
I really appreciated to comments, suggestions, photos and knowledge!!!!
gcongle

 

Putting off the "sticky key fix" cost me a $100 tow and an afternoon of missing out on a hiking trip! I'd do that job as soon as I have time!
No need to remove the seat and it is NOT the terrible job you are thinking... not at all.

So... what problem are you working on? Battery drain or door locks not working?
IF it is the locks, then does the trunk/hatch lock?

 

This thread is going off track rapidly. There is no mention of a sticky ignition switch, so let's ignore that or gcongle will be side tracked even more.

How he came to the assumption of having to take the seat, door panel and the ignition switch out I do not know.

I suggest that gcongle restates his problems and we stick to them in the solution. I see only battery drain and door lock problems. I do see gcongle making leaps in logic which are not logical at all.

 

Here is the original problem. Had a battery drain. Dealer removed fuse from number 5 said the radio was causing the drain. The radio seemed to work fine. I sent the battery out to be checked and found IT is not the problem. I read in this Forum about original source of power and that the problem may be in the ignition switch, which is why I looked at the instructions for removing the panel to get at the ignition switch.
When the number 5 fuse was removed, my doors locks stopped working and must be done manually. I don't know if the door locks are on the fuse #5 circuit, or not. As a result, I thought it would make sense to check the wiring to the door locks, i.e., remove door panels.
I don't know if there is a way of eliminating possible problems to solve this problem, or not. That is where I stand now.
I appreciate the feedback!
gcongle

 

[QUOTE=onehundred80;743040]If the locks do not work then I would check out the air pump/security module in the trunk on the passenger side under the foam block. Any water leaks into this area will eventually ruin this module and cause no end of problems.
You can remove the trunk mat and peer down the front side of the foam, serious water levels can be spotted. Less water requires the five trunk panels, two on each side and the rear one, to be removed and the foam block lifted out. More brutish members here have cut the block up in place and removed it in pieces, not for me but doable I guess.

All the locks are operated by air and vacuum, the security system would use wires for the sensors. So the door locks themselves would not cause a drain n the battery, but the module in the trunk has a lot of wires going to it and water inside the module would cause havoc in the locking/security system.


[/QUOTE)

Agree with the water theory since I've proven it correct in my car. While it is really almost impossible to find where water is infiltrating into the trunk from, it's pretty easy to get it out. Laying under the rear jus below the trunk you'll find a literal low point drain for the trunk area. Just remove the little rubber plug and viola, the water will drain out as quickly as it leaks in. ( the plug is covered wit undercoating but it's pretty easy to see. Just carefully score the undercoat around the plug and pop it out.)

 

You sound frustrated.
As one who has worked on many different kinds of machines over the years, one thing is certain.
They're all capable of breaking.
Sometimes when they break over and over again, only the symtoms are being addressed instead of a root cause.
When the machine is in the hands of a qualified mechanic, engineer, or technician, they will settle down.
.02

 

If you have all the unusual electrical problems as described. I think 180 is on to something. Water and electrical just don't mix in these cars...look both in the trunk as 180 talked about and under the passenger side floor mat..

 

Here is the battery drain test from the manual.

STANDARD PROCEDURE - IGNITION-OFF DRAW TEST
The term Ignition-Off Draw (IOD) identifies a normal condition where power is being drained from the battery with
the ignition switch in the Off position. A normal vehicle electrical system will draw from five to thirty-five milliamperes
(0.005 to 0.035 ampere) with the ignition switch in the Off position, and all non-ignition controlled circuits in proper
working order. Up to thirty-five milliamperes are needed to enable the memory functions for the Powertrain Control
Module (PCM), and other modules which may vary with the vehicle equipment.
A vehicle that has not been operated for approximately twenty days, may discharge the battery to an inadequate
level. When a vehicle will not be used for twenty days or more (stored), remove the negative battery cable from the
battery. This will reduce battery discharging.
Excessive IOD can be caused by:
² Electrical items left on.
² Faulty or improperly adjusted switches.
² Faulty or shorted electronic modules and components.
² An internally shorted generator.
² Intermittent shorts in the wiring.
If the IOD is over thirty-five milliamperes, the problem must be found and corrected before replacing a battery. In
most cases, the battery can be charged and returned to service after the excessive IOD condition has been corrected.
1. Verify that all electrical accessories are off. Turn off all lamps, remove the ignition key, and close all doors. If the
vehicle is equipped with an illuminated entry system or an electronically tuned radio, allow the electronic timer
function of these systems to automatically shut off (time out). This may take up to three minutes. See the Electronic Module Ignition-Off Draw Table for more information.

Test at each fuse to find which fuse is using power or more power than it should, systematic tests are better than grabbing at straws for solutions.

 

Again, thanks for the information.
What kind of instrument do I need to test each fuse? I have something I use to test the battery, etc., but what I have will not work at the fuse input.
I have been frustrated because my knowledge of this electrical system (any newer system) is extremely limited. I have rewired a 1949 Ford, but that was a LITTLE less complicated than this Crossfire.
Once again, all the information I received is appreciated.
gcongle

 

Take the battery ground lead off and insert the leads of a Digital Multimeter in series between the battery post and ground cable.

Use what ever input jack(s) on the meter that are specifically for the ammeter scale and set the meter to milliamps.
If you see over 35 mills of current (.035 amp) then start pulling fuses and see what fuse is the source of the excess current.

Keep a list of your current reading, so you can tell what fuse drew what current. (That is, if you have 250 ma of current and you pull fuse 2 at the RCM, and the current goes to 30 ma, then you know 220 ma is on that one fuse and that is your problem. REMEMBER that a few fuses will show currents of 5 or 10 or 20 ma and that is normal, just so that the total does not exceed 35ma or so.)



With this meter, you'd put the red lead in the "MA" jack and turn the **** to "mA"...

 

Be aware : you gotta have 'faith' to use this meter, as opposed to a Fluke meter.

 

Assuming I have the multimeter set up correctly, I have not been able to get any reading. I have removed the ground cable, what is the correct way to which probe so where? The meter does have a select button on it, but every time I select it, I get a different reading,
1.00's and 50's. Not sure what I may be doing wrong. gcongle