I hate to keep bringing this up...
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
Originally Posted by pizzaguy
I think you make a lot of sense. A guy at the local bank (when I went in to see if the OTHER bank screwed me on financing -which this guy assured me, they didn't) generally said the same thing you did about the XF.
He said to look for an upturn in value earlier than normal with the XF - well under 20 years, according to him.
But like even he said, "You never know, Mark. But look at some of the prized cars today ... they were almost un-noticed in their day".
He said to look for an upturn in value earlier than normal with the XF - well under 20 years, according to him.
But like even he said, "You never know, Mark. But look at some of the prized cars today ... they were almost un-noticed in their day".
One day 20 years from now when 75% of all Crossfires are sitting in junkyards because they were totalled by insurance companies, more people will actually start to learn about them. A Mercedes in a Chrysler skin.... the stepchild of a long gone merger. Give someone a little info about the Crossfire and they will be hooked.... just like my first encounter more than 5 years ago.
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
I don't know if this post is on "point" or not, but let me tell you my situation, and i'll let you determine why some people like myself (older) buys a car like mine. I bought my SRT roadster with no thought of collectibility or investment! I bought my car in Jan 2010 in Tampa for $21500, with about 16000 miles on it. I had been looking at new Miata's, Sky's, and Soltices. I found my car listed on the internet in Oct 09, by a private seller, and that sparked my interest, and was still available in January. I have owned MGs, and older Mustang converts, and was just looking for a 2 seater that had an automatic and a little "spunk" and "look at me" thing, going for it. I honestly didn't know that there were only 928 of them made, and probably less that 900 left, and probably only 650 to 700 in the United states (only guesstimates). This only adds to the "well kept secret" of the car, and this "secret" will probably prevent much appreciation in price.
After my purchase, I've put on about 3000 miles, and it will be garaged during the winter. I figured that here was a 5 yr old, very sporty roadster, that I could buy for less then half of the original list, and having the MB "guts", I figured I couldn't go wrong. Still don't ! Whether I keep this car for a few years or not, my guess is, as long as I keep it "perfect", I shouldn't lose as many $$ on it as the others, just in depreciation. If I ultimately get my $$ back, or close to it, or more for that matter, that will be great. I've owned boats that almost always go down in value exponentially, every year its owned. But if one enjoys the car, or boat, while using it ..... I figure that's where the value is. Just my $.02 on collectibility value!
After my purchase, I've put on about 3000 miles, and it will be garaged during the winter. I figured that here was a 5 yr old, very sporty roadster, that I could buy for less then half of the original list, and having the MB "guts", I figured I couldn't go wrong. Still don't ! Whether I keep this car for a few years or not, my guess is, as long as I keep it "perfect", I shouldn't lose as many $$ on it as the others, just in depreciation. If I ultimately get my $$ back, or close to it, or more for that matter, that will be great. I've owned boats that almost always go down in value exponentially, every year its owned. But if one enjoys the car, or boat, while using it ..... I figure that's where the value is. Just my $.02 on collectibility value!
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
Honestly with lackluster and dwindling dealer support, the almost impossible availability of oem parts and the number of cars with issues (electrical, mechanical, etc) I have a hard time seeing this car becoming a car with a cult like following. Plus with such a small production run, the number of cars that get totaled, scrapped, stolen and things of the like unjust see numbers falling to quickly over the long run. Unless the dealers step it up and start getting their shot back in order I foresee these cars going the way of the dinosaur in a decade.
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
Originally Posted by Infinite
Honestly with lackluster and dwindling dealer support, the almost impossible availability of oem parts and the number of cars with issues (electrical, mechanical, etc) I have a hard time seeing this car becoming a car with a cult like following. Plus with such a small production run, the number of cars that get totaled, scrapped, stolen and things of the like unjust see numbers falling to quickly over the long run. Unless the dealers step it up and start getting their shot back in order I foresee these cars going the way of the dinosaur in a decade.
A friend of mine restored his 50 something T Bird and searched for parts under ever rock throughout this country. Took him years. The stories were amazing. The price he paid for some of the parts were crazy. The T Bird went the way of the dinosaur years ago and you can't find parts but that only made it more of an icon.
I do not agree with your conclusion. But that is just me! And no offense.... you haven't been around long enough to see what I have seen. I am not that much older than you but still!
Last edited by blackcrossfire07; 09-15-2010 at 05:53 PM.
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
Originally Posted by Vegaslegal
I'm already doing the collector/restoration thing ('66 Sunbeam Tiger MK1a, '73 Jensen Healey, and 70 MB 300 SEL). I've bought and sold at auction and direct. Looking at these, one is a desired collectable (Tiger), one is a low end collectable or not a collectable (JH), and the MB is in the middle. There are so many factors to what makes something desirable.
My Sunbeam should pull north of $45k were I to sell it while the JH would top out at $5k. There are twice as many Sunbeam survivors as the JH, and the latter weighs a half-ton less, has 15 more ponies, a leather interior, the Healey connection, and two world championships under its belt. Why the difference? IMHO the heaviest weighted factor is the "God I want one of those" when the car was marketed. No one particularly wanted a JH, while the wow I wish I had one factor of the Tiger (and likewise Mustangs, Vettes, and Camaros) was through the roof. The Crossfire does not do very well in this category.
The second most important consideration is the "I (or someone close to me) had one of those and I loved it" factor. Falling under this category would be cars like the Ford Falcon, '55-57 Chevy, Nova, Duster, and Charger. All command respectable prices, but absent fuel injection or a Hemi, are only moderately collectable. Note that this factor eschews any reliance on scarcity. The Crossfire doesn't do it here either.
A third path to collectability could be through the iconic nature of the car. A '59 Cadillac, a Toronado, an Avanti, a Beatle, etc., fit this bill. While the Crossfire may touch on this, it does not reach the pinnacle needed.
Obviously all of this turns on supply and demand, and the above factors all go to the later demand. It doesn't look too good for the Crossfire. The one possible saving factor is that everyone who owns this car seems to love this car, and as mentioned above, the price is getting many into the hands of young people today. There also appears to be a great deal of attrition due to the totalling of cars suffering minor damage. Unlike todays collector cars, nonetheless, the attrition is set off by greater longevity of today's vehicles.
It pains me to say this, but there is not a lot going for our cars other than driving them and enjoying them. But that is still more than most people get out of their vehicles.
My Sunbeam should pull north of $45k were I to sell it while the JH would top out at $5k. There are twice as many Sunbeam survivors as the JH, and the latter weighs a half-ton less, has 15 more ponies, a leather interior, the Healey connection, and two world championships under its belt. Why the difference? IMHO the heaviest weighted factor is the "God I want one of those" when the car was marketed. No one particularly wanted a JH, while the wow I wish I had one factor of the Tiger (and likewise Mustangs, Vettes, and Camaros) was through the roof. The Crossfire does not do very well in this category.
The second most important consideration is the "I (or someone close to me) had one of those and I loved it" factor. Falling under this category would be cars like the Ford Falcon, '55-57 Chevy, Nova, Duster, and Charger. All command respectable prices, but absent fuel injection or a Hemi, are only moderately collectable. Note that this factor eschews any reliance on scarcity. The Crossfire doesn't do it here either.
A third path to collectability could be through the iconic nature of the car. A '59 Cadillac, a Toronado, an Avanti, a Beatle, etc., fit this bill. While the Crossfire may touch on this, it does not reach the pinnacle needed.
Obviously all of this turns on supply and demand, and the above factors all go to the later demand. It doesn't look too good for the Crossfire. The one possible saving factor is that everyone who owns this car seems to love this car, and as mentioned above, the price is getting many into the hands of young people today. There also appears to be a great deal of attrition due to the totalling of cars suffering minor damage. Unlike todays collector cars, nonetheless, the attrition is set off by greater longevity of today's vehicles.
It pains me to say this, but there is not a lot going for our cars other than driving them and enjoying them. But that is still more than most people get out of their vehicles.
The list is long ---with a BIG, I want that factor comes collectivity---not wow that was a great deal because they had to mark them down to sell them---and that is what happened. SRTs sat for a year or more before many were sold. Mine was not sold the first time until Feb of 2007---TWO years after it was built---wow!!! That is not a---I have got to have it car! You can STILL get a NEW 2008 with less than 100 miles---2011 are now out. Now, I love my car, but drive them and enjoy the fact that are the best "deal" on the road.
Last edited by JimmyJames; 09-15-2010 at 05:56 PM.
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
Originally Posted by Infinite
Honestly with lackluster and dwindling dealer support, the almost impossible availability of oem parts and the number of cars with issues (electrical, mechanical, etc) I have a hard time seeing this car becoming a car with a cult like following. Plus with such a small production run, the number of cars that get totaled, scrapped, stolen and things of the like unjust see numbers falling to quickly over the long run. Unless the dealers step it up and start getting their shot back in order I foresee these cars going the way of the dinosaur in a decade.
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
Originally Posted by JimmyJames
You are dead on!!!! As I said in my earlier post---cars that do not sell well the first time RARELY, if ever, sell well the second time around, and you nailed it with your example. They NEVER gave away big block Chevys---well until the gas crunch---but 10 plus years had pasted with crazy sales---they were special order for crying out loud. The Mustang sold 41,000 it's first DAY!!!!! They are all over the place and people STILL want them.
The list is long ---with a BIG, I want that factor comes collectivity---not wow that was a great deal because they had to mark them down to sell them---and that is what happened. SRTs sat for a year or more before many were sold. Mine was not sold the first time until Feb of 2007---wow!!! That is not a---I have got to have it car! You can STILL get a NEW 2008 with less than 100 miles. Now, I love my car, but drive them and enjoy the fact that are the best "deal" on the road.
The list is long ---with a BIG, I want that factor comes collectivity---not wow that was a great deal because they had to mark them down to sell them---and that is what happened. SRTs sat for a year or more before many were sold. Mine was not sold the first time until Feb of 2007---wow!!! That is not a---I have got to have it car! You can STILL get a NEW 2008 with less than 100 miles. Now, I love my car, but drive them and enjoy the fact that are the best "deal" on the road.
Most collectible cars didn't sell well from the start.
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
Originally Posted by blackcrossfire07
The elements that you just described is exactly why it would become a collectible. How many collectibles do you know have parts that can be easily found? Usually when something is rare or one of a kind it helps to define itself as a collectible.
A friend of mine restored his 50 something T Bird and searched for parts under ever rock throughout this country. Took him years. The stories were amazing. The price he paid for some of the parts were crazy. The T Bird went the way of the dinosaur years ago and you can't find parts but that only made it more of an icon.
I do not agree with your conclusion. But that is just me! And no offense.... you haven't been around long enough to see what I have seen. I am not that much older than you but still!
A friend of mine restored his 50 something T Bird and searched for parts under ever rock throughout this country. Took him years. The stories were amazing. The price he paid for some of the parts were crazy. The T Bird went the way of the dinosaur years ago and you can't find parts but that only made it more of an icon.
I do not agree with your conclusion. But that is just me! And no offense.... you haven't been around long enough to see what I have seen. I am not that much older than you but still!
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
A car becomes collectible when it means something to the person who wants it. To the right person the Crossfire will be a collectible. That person will probably want an SRT 6 as it was rarer and had more power, however as a whole the Crossfire just like any car to the right person will be desired. There are rare cars out there with cult following first gen Toronados and Riverias. Will the Crossfire ever become a mainstream collectible, that is too hard to say.
My opinion is who cares. If you have an extra one put up in storage if the Crossfire becomes collectible that is great and I hope your investment pays off. I know for me I bought mine to drive and enjoy. This will be the first car I don't plan on trading. Drive the car, love it, take care of it. Just my thoughts.
My opinion is who cares. If you have an extra one put up in storage if the Crossfire becomes collectible that is great and I hope your investment pays off. I know for me I bought mine to drive and enjoy. This will be the first car I don't plan on trading. Drive the car, love it, take care of it. Just my thoughts.
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
Originally Posted by blackcrossfire07
Don't forget, the economy and car market fell apart around the time of the crossfire. So it was battling low sales numbers (but not that bad when compared to the Audi TT). The car industry tanking also had something to do with cars sitting on lots.
Most collectible cars didn't sell well from the start.
Most collectible cars didn't sell well from the start.
As for your statement "Most collectible cars didn't sell well from the start" is just wrong---please give examples---Vegaslaw did and so have I---there must be a 'I got to have it" factor which makes sales the first time and the second and the third---not the "mark down" car that the Crossfire was off the lot new.
Last edited by JimmyJames; 09-15-2010 at 06:21 PM.
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
Originally Posted by Jason_HBC
A car becomes collectible when it means something to the person who wants it. To the right person the Crossfire will be a collectible. That person will probably want an SRT 6 as it was rarer and had more power, however as a whole the Crossfire just like any car to the right person will be desired. There are rare cars out there with cult following first gen Toronados and Riverias. Will the Crossfire ever become a mainstream collectible, that is too hard to say.
My opinion is who cares. If you have an extra one put up in storage if the Crossfire becomes collectible that is great and I hope your investment pays off. I know for me I bought mine to drive and enjoy. This will be the first car I don't plan on trading. Drive the car, love it, take care of it. Just my thoughts.
My opinion is who cares. If you have an extra one put up in storage if the Crossfire becomes collectible that is great and I hope your investment pays off. I know for me I bought mine to drive and enjoy. This will be the first car I don't plan on trading. Drive the car, love it, take care of it. Just my thoughts.
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
The crossfire has no real collectable properties. Its nothing new or groundbreaking. It's styling cues are awkward at best. Handling is mediocre in stock form, car is also underpowered in NA form. The car didn't actually sell like it was supposed to. The dealer can't support them. It's simply a ******* love child of two nastily divorced parents and it shows. I highly doubt you'll ever see a crossfire on the auction block at Barrett Jackson
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
Originally Posted by Grumps
Where is that grocery store ??????????? lol
Originally Posted by Voyager
Yeah I'd like to find that grocery store as well. Or give him my number so I can sell it. These cars will never be worth more than they were new. Maybe eventually they might go up in value but I'm not willing to wait for that
I'm not gonna be keeping this car til I die or til it's smashed into tiny little pieces because I think it will be worth a boatload of money someday, I'm keeping her cause I love the car.
The car will find a niche with similar people years down the road. Someone will want them.
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
Originally Posted by JimmyJames
As for your statement "Most collectible cars didn't sell well from the start" is just wrong---please give examples---Vegaslaw did and so have I---there must be a 'I got to have it" factor which makes sales the first time and the second and the third---not the "mark down" car that the Crossfire was off the lot new.
An excellent example of a 2 seater AMX brings over $50K at Barrett Jackson. (at Saturdays AZ auction), and $150k (or more) for a primo Bird is not uncommon at BJ's.
To say that you will never see a Crossfire at BJ's is simply ludicrous.
Our car's value hasn't bottomed out yet, oh sure, it may fluctuate with the market, and the seasons, but they will eventually sell for even lower prices than we've seen in recent years.
A car has to bottom out, before it starts to appreciate, and these cars will appreciate eventually. Yes, even the NA car, but of course the SRT's will ALWAYS be more desirable to the average car enthusiast. How much? Probably depends more on inflation, that desireability.
Most any 2 seater "Sports Car" becomes a desirable (classic/vintage) commodity eventually. Whether or not you consider that a collectable, is simply a matter of definition.
Will I ever see my Crossfire sell for more than I paid for it? Probably not. I purchased mine brand new, and even though I got it for a great price $21,700.00. At nearly 60, I probably won't be around long enough to see it appreciate that much. For those of you (younger folks) who picked one up used (for a good price, in the low teens) it's only a matter of time.
I didn't buy my XF as a future investment. 40 years ago, I purchased my AMX with the intentions of never selling it. I had no problem keeping it all those years, because I never had the desire to sell it for anything else.
Coincidently, (40 years later) I feel the very same way about the Crossfire. Who knows, when I'm 95, maybe I will be able to sell it for a profit.
As for the question about it having a "Cult" following? If after reading this forum, you don't think that it already has a cult following, then I don't know what does.
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
All crossfires owner want to do is bolt imon shiny ****. I've yet to area truly modified car that has performance value as opposed to aesthetics. Most crossfire owners think led bulbs and hid's constitutes modified. Far from a cult, atleast one to be taken seriously
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
Originally Posted by +fireamx
Plymouth Superbird ring a bell? The AMX? Sure, that doesn't constitute "Most" but they certainly didn't set the world on fire when they were new.
An excellent example of a 2 seater AMX brings over $50K at Barrett Jackson. (at Saturdays AZ auction), and $150k (or more) for a primo Bird is not uncommon at BJ's.
An excellent example of a 2 seater AMX brings over $50K at Barrett Jackson. (at Saturdays AZ auction), and $150k (or more) for a primo Bird is not uncommon at BJ's.
I love my Crossfire, but it never generated the WOW factor. It never raced a NASCAR track like the Superbird or Bonneville like the AMX that set 106 world speed and endurance records !!!! Give me a car that sets 106 world speed and endurance records, and I will show you a collectible.
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
Originally Posted by Infinite
All crossfires owner want to do is bolt imon shiny ****. I've yet to area truly modified car that has performance value as opposed to aesthetics. Most crossfire owners think led bulbs and hid's constitutes modified. Far from a cult, atleast one to be taken seriously
Cult | Define Cult at Dictionary.com
I've never used the ignor feature on this forum, but I've got to say, it does have its advantages.
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Re: I hate to keep bringing this up...
Originally Posted by Infinite
As long as you feel strongly about the car that's all that matters. I've just never seen people that are so strongly tilted toward cosmetic modification, that's all.