Blah Blah, politics. Good for you. They will think twice next time. Cape Ann? Grew up in Ipswich.

 

Just makes me glad you don't own a gun.

 

Just put one
up last Fall after somebody took it out 50.00$$ Not bad ! I;m sure the Fender that came off his car cost alot more !!! Ya I was **** off, but nobody got hurt !

 

Well, just to throw a little fuel on the fire, the law is mixed as to whether the pursuit was legal. Here are some interesting citations.
Nelson v. Howell, 455 So.2d 608, 610 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 1984) (private citizen may arrest person who commits felony in his presence, and where citizen has such person in his custody and felon attempts to flee, citizen may use such force in preventing felon's escape "as is necessary, or as appears to him in the exercise of reasonable discretion to be necessary, even to the extent of taking life"); see also Collins v. State, 143 So.2d 700, 703 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 1962) (private citizen does have common law right to arrest person who commits felony in his presence)If in truth appellant's money had been taken from him by force and against his will, he, or any other private person, had a lawful right to pursue the thief for the purpose of arresting him, and of recapturing the money so taken. McGuff v. State, 248 Ala. 259, 261 (Ala. 1946)In carrying out such an arrest a private citizen has a right to pursue the felon and to use necessary force and any reasonable necessary means to effect that arrest or to prevent the escape of the person who has committed a felony in his presence, or whom he reasonably believes to be guilty of a felony, which has been committed. Smith v. State, 258 Ind. 594, 602 (Ind. 1972)
While each of the foregoing mentions felony, the turning factor seems to be the legality of the arrest. Most states allow for a citizen's arrest for a misdemeanor committed in the citizen's presence. Were there charges brought against the pursuer, he could well have a colorable claim of legal justification in defense.
Note, though, just to put up a defense to a criminal charge one could expect to spend at least $5k, a lot more than a mailbox. Also note, cops hate it when regular people seek to do their jobs.

 

you guys are nuts for chasing them down, if you try that stuff in my nieghborhood any other town you risk getting your head blown off, by some punk kids. times are definatly changing, parents don't properly raise thier kids and not involved with thier children anymore due to being over worked and under paid. kids are running wild and teenage minds are not fully developed to comprehend reality. they always over react which makes them dangerous. so watch yourself. just call the cops they are trained in thsi stuff.

 

 

When I was in high school, I had to use the same tactics, but I was the one being chased. There were some people trying to do me harm (took one of their girlfriends, in essence) and were not playing around. two SUVs full of 17-18 year olds wanting my blood, and me in my BMW. Naturally, I did not think, and floored it. Was doing 80+ through neighborhoods and was hoping to get pulled over. No cell phone then and no help. Finally I made it away, but none the less, I was running for a reason. Safety, not a $50 mailbox. All I could think of is, what if I hit someone? What if someone runs out in front of me?

In hindsight, I probably should not have done what I did, but to this day, I can not think of anything else I should/could have done.

Yours was a choice, pure simple, and not a good one.

If you would have been pulled over while trying to give chase, they would have asked why you were going so fast, and they would have ticketed you regardless of whether someone else broke the law 'first'. Or you would have jumped out of the car upon being pulled over and the officer would have shot you thinking you were a combatant.

No one is perfect, and I am not trying to be a total *ick, but why post somethign like this in the first place? Did you think our response would be the same as your peers?? (which I am sure they thought it was badass )

Oh well, either way, please do everyone on the roads a favor and not repeat that behavior.

 

Vegaslegal,,I hope one day we can agree on a topic that has nothing to do with the Crossfire,,,Until then a friendly observation. The key phrase.Any REASONABLE" necessary means. With that in mind many law enforcement agencies no longer engage in a vehicle pursuit over misd. property damage for this very reason. Is it reasonable, and is the safety of the general public worth the risk involved. many a lawyer has made a good living trying wrongfull death cases or where subjects have been injuried in auto related cases with tradgic outcomes..Had the outcome in the above situation had a traggic ending you would be laughed out of a court room had you pulled the adove cases from your leather bound briefcase as a defense for such conduct,,,,,over a mailbox. I have seen what happens to a vehicle and the occupants when a car his a stationary object or another vehicle at the above listed speeds,,,its sad,I have also dealt with the families....

 

BOOK-EM DANNO

 

Vegaslegal,,I hope one day we can agree on a topic that has nothing to do with the Crossfire,,,

John: Where in my post do you get the idea that I thought chasing these guys was a good idea. The last two sentences make it clear that on a cost benefit analysis vis a vis the cop issue, you would probably come out on the south end of the contest. Also, nothing in the post suggests an immunity from civil liability, just a defense if one is charged criminally. Further, I qualified it as 'some states,' and local jurisdictions can obviously differ. As to the "reasonable" language you cite, it only applies in your context in one of the cases. "Reasonable" doesn't appear in the other, and in the third it is the acts that will reasonably result in securing the perpetrator, not acting reasonably to secure the perpetrator. This is a distinction with a difference as the right to secure the perpetrator remains constant in the former. I.e., is it reasonably expected that the acts will result in apprehension, not were the acts reasonable in light of other surrounding circumstances. Yeah, we lawyers are wordy hyper-technical sobs.

 

Yeah, you are, and the blunt of many jokes---to that I respond, "If you think lawyer jokes are funny, then the next time that you are in a jam call a comedian."

 

GOOD GRIEF!

 

LMAO.............I'm friends with all the judges and most lawyers in the county having spent 12 yrs in political office....it's funny when we all set down to lunch together, joke around, discuss the local happenings, then walk across the street and do battle....it is just a job...as long as we do it professionally...I'm sure he is a great kid, and won't try that again...caught in the moment...and no, we wouldn't have pursued over a mailbox either, but surely they had the license # and description of the suspects...but like I said...time to move on to the next world crisis we have beat this one to death....

 

Firstly, I wanted to thank everyone who responded. Primarily, I wanted to avoid insult-ridden posts that lacked any thoughtful comment, and I'm glad that everyone on these forums knows how to express said thoughts and their opinions.

To give an update on the situation, the driver of the CRV came to my house today and paid me the damages to the mailbox. I told him that I was sorry about the ordeal and that there weren't any bad feelings towards him. I also told him "thank you for that night. It was the one of the very few times I have ever felt alive, and it was the funnest night of all my eighteen years." To which he responded "I'm glad that I could have given you that."

Doc, I have always respected and valued your opinions, and you've given me great advice in the past when I ran into trouble with a ticket. Please, don't think any less of me for what I am going to say.

A quote that immediately came to mind when I read this thread in its entirety was "I don't blame people for their mistakes, but I do ask that they pay for them." While it was showcased in Jurassic Park (I believe), it doesn't detract from what it means. My peer did something wrong, but he showed the backbone that very few people my age have. He called me, having acquired my number from the Wakefield police officer I had spoken to, and delivered what I felt was an earnest apology and offered to pay for his and his friends choices. I accepted the money only because it was not my own that replaced the previous mailboxes nor the current one. If it were, then I would have told him that the apology would have sufficed.

I do not consider myself a "kid," and have not for a long time. Certain things in my life have allowed me to claim that title (in my opinion). Having said that, my parents and my upbringing have nothing to do with the situation. I acted completely under my own volition and chose my course of action based on what I felt as appropriate, taking license to do what had to be done, in my eyes, to handle the situation that was at hand. To say that my parents should have any part of the certainly life-threatening events that took place that night is completely false. Rather, I feel that my parents have done what they could in parenting, and I made my own decisions after the fact. I am separate from my parents and expect to be treated as such.

In regards to the incident, I know that my friend and I were wrong in doing what we did. Yes, we put the general public at risk of severe injury or death. Yes, I placed an enormous amount of faith and risk in what is essentially two teenage drivers behind the wheel of cars that they should or should not be behind of in the first place. And yes, we did so while completely ignoring our own safety.

Do I regret my actions? The answer is a resounding no. If I could change anything from that night, I would not change a single thing. I am not going to make this a mouth piece for "This is what America was built on, free people defending them and their own and their property." But it felt right to me. And if I didn't do what I did then I would have been betraying my character. Knowing full well what could *possibly* happen, I decided that I would make something happen for myself.

I respect everyone who stated they would not have given chase. At the end of the day, however, let it be said that I defended myself and my actions not in the vein of an illogical teenager with a car, but a young adult that acted knowingly, accepted responsibility for these actions, and took them into his life with that much more experience to draw on in the future. In a post-present and similar circumstance, would I give chase again? Hopefully no. It is a question to which there is no honest reply. The only response I could give would be that I can only hope to be more mature and not act as audaciously as I did.

To finish off this absurdly long post, I want to thank Franc Rauscher. You gave me the inspiration to write this with the truth and clarity that I felt when the chips were on the table. If I have accomplished nothing at all with this post, then at least I did one thing that many people wiser than me would not have done.

Thanks again for those who posted. It is 3:00am, and I have class in the morning. Good night, and make sure your mailboxes are still in place!

 

I had a friend do the whole concrete mailbox thing 20 some odd years ago. Dangerous or not, it was still funny when he painted little baseball bat "kills" on the side every time he found a new scuff or broken bat.

Also, I'm no expert in mailbox law, but all the ones in my neighborhood and the surrounding neighborhoods are encased in brick. They'll crumble if you hit them with your car, but no one is trying to take a bat to them.

 

Gotta agree with Doc here -- Frank R has got a lot of good points also, we all have done things that in hindsight could have been done better, but be honest about it if it goes badly which it could easily do.

 

badseed1: You beat the odds on your rampage, but apparantly (from reading your book) you still don't get it. Admitting no regrets, you'd do it again, trying to justify yourself, etc. shows us that (yes) you are a kid. I must say though that you did explain yourself in writing quite well; except for the contradictions. I believe that all who have responded had your future in mind or they wouldn't have even bothered to add to the thread. It takes a mature person to fully admit when they are at fault. I also believe that your parents did a good job of raising you and that you are brighter than the average 18 yr. old, for sure. Knowing whether you would do the same thing over again should be an easy no brainer answer.

 

DinaSRT:

Thinking about it even more, I can safely say that running someone down like that will not be happening again. Unless it's in a video game. Thanks to everyone again, now I'm going to work!

 

You young adults, (not a kid anymore) can sure kick us older guys a$$es in those video games. My son can kill me w/ just one hand. Good luck in your chosen path! Bob