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Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by Walters5507
You say do this every 4 to 6 weeks until I get the sprint booster. I’ve never actually used, or seen anyone use one on any platform around here. What exactly is it going to be doing and what are the gains?
I figure I'd chime in real quick with regards to the SprintBooster and what it does.


The Sprintbooster actually works similar to a voltage regulator. The travel range on your pedal from no-gas to pedal-mashed had corresponding voltage. When you perform a throttle reset the voltage is fairly linear from 0V to 5V. As you drive the car on the highway and in other similar sustained MPH scenarios the computer/throttle body learn and instead of a linear 0-5V through your pedal travel it may be changed to 0-1V for the first 50% of travel and 1-5V for the last 50% of your pedal-mashing. This causes less acceleration with the same amount of pedal push as was during throttle reset.

The SprintBooster re-assigns this voltage. Now when the throttle is reset again with the SprintBooster installed you will see a voltage range from 2.5-5V (obviously it is still 0V when you are not on the pedal at all). What this does is create less pedal travel necessary to achieve the same throttle response as you would previously see by depressing the throttle significantly more (theoretically 2.5V = 50% pedal w/o the SprintBooster).

While this does not add ANY horsepower, it does provide better response of the horsepower you do have to the pedal, making the car a bit more peepy and responsive.

My $.02. Hope that helps.
 
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 10:11 AM
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Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by BoilerUpXFire
Glad to have someone with you spirit aboard. As you know, Franc, and many others here are great resources brimming with info on these little hot wheels.

The talk about a group of people enamored with this car, do yourself a favor and come to the Dragon, you will find out more about your car and how to handle it in a weekend than most people will in their entire ownership period (and it is fun to hang out at the lodge after the sun goes down and get drunk with a bunch of other XF aficionados )
I've been wanting to make it to the Dragon for sometime now. A couple buddies of mine made the trip with their bikes but I only had a Ninja 250 at the time. The little pisser wasn't abot to make that trip then trough the dragon. I think after I get the CAI on, get an aftermarket exhaust (thinking of the meghan racing M-RS), then get her tuned over at Eurocharged I'll make the trip. I helped my buddy replace his engine and upgrade his turbo to the 16G and all of his components in his eagle talon last fall. So, we cruise around all the time and I could probably convince him to go on a road trip with me.

I'm thinkin I'm really going to like this forum and the people here. You guys are all very knowledgeable and not afraid to share it. Thanks for the help, suggestions, and invites to gatherings. Over time you will see me more and more and watch my car become more and more impressive. this is going to be a fun journey!
 
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Old 03-25-2010 | 10:16 AM
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Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by Walters5507
I just bought the car a week ago but I've been driving it for a good 6 months now. I haven't done any tuning, mods, etc. 46,000 miles on her with the cooper zeons for tires. I'm pretty sure the tires have been it's only upgrade since stock by any owner.
Just a question. I assume then you have the 18" tires all the way around because the Coopers don't come in 19"'s so how do you like the Coopers, and especially comment on how they handle in wet/snow. You're the first person I know who has these shoes on. thanks.
 
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 11:07 AM
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From: St Louis MO
Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by Walters5507
Franc, Let me just tell you that you are a god send. I knew I was going to need to surround myself with people that know these cars and was hoping to find that here. Well, I have now I’m just plain ole’ excited.

Well, I did the throttle reset this morning before work and I could already tell the difference just in my drive to work. I’m excited to play with it a little after work. You say do this every 4 to 6 weeks until I get the sprint booster. I’ve never actually used, or seen anyone use one on any platform around here. What exactly is it going to be doing and what are the gains?

The shift point information is exactly what I’ve been looking for. This should help me out a lot getting some decent pulls. I’ve been trying to learn the car and I’ve been getting a rough idea of where the power is. This is perfect though. I can see myself spending a good amount of time and gas in the car this evening feeling it out with those shift points.

What do you suggest for the CAI? Is there a specific brand that you prefer or no? I’ve kind of been looking around because I know I need to let my baby breathe a little better.

With the tune, do you suggest I get the CAI all put together and then make the trip down to Tony at Euro? If that’s case, that just sounds like a fun day trip and spending some time down there chattin with the guys at the shop. If he’s as good as you say he is then I definitely deem the trip worth it. I want to do this car up right and somebody that knows it inside and out, plus knows how to get the most out of it in a safe manner is exactly what I need.

As for mod kits what do you suggest? I’ve heard a lot of people going with the TVT kits but what is going to be the most bang for my buck? Obviously they have lots of different options in kits but at what point are you just going over board? I looking to get the full potential out of my XFire and going with tasteful modifications. I have a different thread for what people suggest for mods and kits. So, if you want to check that out and see what people have said then toss in your input there it would be greatly appreciated.

The CAA that you are talking about, I assume that it’s on the events page? Where is that being held? I might want to come to that to see all of your guys’ cars and then get some face to face pointers on mine. There is nothing better than spending a day surrounded by people that not only share a common interest in cars but in a specific car. I might need to take a road trip J

Ever since I started spending time on this site, my XFire and this site have almost become an addiction. I go from the site to car, from the car to the site, back and forth. My free-time is no longer free time. It’s XFire time… I’ve become utterly and completely infatuated with this beautiful, really cool car.
First, I am just one of many who will gladly help. At best, I know one tenth of what there is and learned a lot of it here. Great forum

Cold Air Intake is a must. The little stock intake tubes really restrict this 3.2L engine. Needs Wings has some great units. TVT has some in their packages.

Best bang for the buck is a Cai and a tuned chip or a flash tune. TVT265 kit seems to please a lot of guys. I have a custom system that draws air from the right front fender fog light access box. It works well but is a custom design. That means some of it is less than, shall we say, professional looking because it is a one off. But I'm more about function than looks under the hood. 3.0 " is a must.
I think Needswings has a dual CAI for the NA now. I would look into that unit if I was starting today.

If you are going to do a flash tune, your injectors are most likely adequate but after the CAI and a tune, I would next go there. Not hard to install and about $180 for six 19# from Mercedes. If you are having a dyno tune at Eurocharged, I would get them in before the tune.

Hot NJK plugs are a good mod that I would only have believed on faith added performance until I saw it on the dyno. Easy to do and not a lot of bucks.
Mod you exhaust for sound not performance. Deleting your back cats supposedly adds 3 HP. It does make the exhaust more throaty. Frankly exhaust mods seldom add performance. Again do it for sound.

Tony and the guys at Eurocharged took mine fom 154 HP at th wheel to 192.5. That and the sprintbooster, which eliminates that momentary lag in the throttle, literaly sets the Crossie on fire. You will love it.

You 18" rears will give you some help on accelerations. Have Tony reset you rev limiter for each gear. Yes, they can do that. I am at 6300 rpms in first, 2nd and third; 6000 in 4,5,6. Knowing the rear wheel size you may find my suggested shift points a little high.

I am about to go 18" on my rears just for the strip. I believe under the optimum track and air conditions you could break into the 13's without squirting NO2.


Use the search feature on this site for sources of these mods. Or just talk to Anthony @TVT or Tony and Gregg @ Eurocharged. These guys are true gearheads and will steer you right.

The CAA is Crossfires Across America. The event is this coming June 22,23,24 and will be held in St Louis MO. We are hosting several wine tour runs, some vendor events, St Louis city sights tours and a triple A Ball game event. We have track time at Gateway Intl Speedway on Tuesday for drag racing. And on Wednesday for oval track and autocross. Final dinner on Thursday we have the drawing for an Aeroblue SRT signed by Eric Stoddard. raffle tickets are limited to 350 and are selling for $100 each. Ticket sales will start as soon as the lawyer says we are legal.

Hope this helps and by the way, welcome to the best damm car forum in the country.


roadster with a stick
 

Last edited by Franc Rauscher; 03-25-2010 at 11:14 AM.
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 11:28 AM
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From: West Bend, WI
Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by ZAHANMA
I figure I'd chime in real quick with regards to the SprintBooster and what it does.


The Sprintbooster actually works similar to a voltage regulator. The travel range on your pedal from no-gas to pedal-mashed had corresponding voltage. When you perform a throttle reset the voltage is fairly linear from 0V to 5V. As you drive the car on the highway and in other similar sustained MPH scenarios the computer/throttle body learn and instead of a linear 0-5V through your pedal travel it may be changed to 0-1V for the first 50% of travel and 1-5V for the last 50% of your pedal-mashing. This causes less acceleration with the same amount of pedal push as was during throttle reset.

The SprintBooster re-assigns this voltage. Now when the throttle is reset again with the SprintBooster installed you will see a voltage range from 2.5-5V (obviously it is still 0V when you are not on the pedal at all). What this does is create less pedal travel necessary to achieve the same throttle response as you would previously see by depressing the throttle significantly more (theoretically 2.5V = 50% pedal w/o the SprintBooster).

While this does not add ANY horsepower, it does provide better response of the horsepower you do have to the pedal, making the car a bit more peepy and responsive.

My $.02. Hope that helps.
wow that's kind of cool that the XFire does that. Slightly annoying, but still cool. Yeah I can see how the Sprint Booster would be a nice addition. Thanks for the info!
 
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 11:41 AM
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Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by mdaniels4
Just a question. I assume then you have the 18" tires all the way around because the Coopers don't come in 19"'s so how do you like the Coopers, and especially comment on how they handle in wet/snow. You're the first person I know who has these shoes on. thanks.
No, I have 18" in the front, 19" in the rear. The tires on the rear are the Cooper Zeon 2 X S (255/35ZR19). I haven't driven it much in the rain or snow. there was a light rain the other and just kind of glossed the road and I felt like I was in Fast and Furious - Tokyo Drift. I had to start in second otherwise I broke loose. My dad's XFire has the continentals and mine has the coopers. His continentals give it a smoother ride. But, the coopers have a thicker sidewall so I gives it better handling. The tires I have on it now are probably 2 years old and it was sitting for awhile on them. So, I don't know how valid it would be for me to say that they don't the best traction. If I try driving with the ESP on, it will always lag out on me because they break loose fairly easily. Like I said though, this might have something to do with it sitting on the tires plus the ground is still fairly cold here.

The Coopers are good for better handling but it makes it ride a little rougher. This isn't a big deal due to the fact that it already has a stiff suspension and a stiff ride. I might be going with the Cooper Zeons again and see how they are fresh. My dad did say they were good when he first got the car. So we'll see. Hopefully this helps a little. I wouldn't consider myself a good source of information on tires or anything in regards to the XFire at this point. So, maybe do a little more research on the Coopers. If you find out anything let me know. That way I can decide if I want the Coopers again or if I should go with something different.
 
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 11:52 AM
Walters5507's Avatar
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Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by Franc Rauscher
First, I am just one of many who will gladly help. At best, I know one tenth of what there is and learned a lot of it here. Great forum

Cold Air Intake is a must. The little stock intake tubes really restrict this 3.2L engine. Needs Wings has some great units. TVT has some in their packages.

Best bang for the buck is a Cai and a tuned chip or a flash tune. TVT265 kit seems to please a lot of guys. I have a custom system that draws air from the right front fender fog light access box. It works well but is a custom design. That means some of it is less than, shall we say, professional looking because it is a one off. But I'm more about function than looks under the hood. 3.0 " is a must.
I think Needswings has a dual CAI for the NA now. I would look into that unit if I was starting today.

If you are going to do a flash tune, your injectors are most likely adequate but after the CAI and a tune, I would next go there. Not hard to install and about $180 for six 19# from Mercedes. If you are having a dyno tune at Eurocharged, I would get them in before the tune.

Hot NJK plugs are a good mod that I would only have believed on faith added performance until I saw it on the dyno. Easy to do and not a lot of bucks.
Mod you exhaust for sound not performance. Deleting your back cats supposedly adds 3 HP. It does make the exhaust more throaty. Frankly exhaust mods seldom add performance. Again do it for sound.

Tony and the guys at Eurocharged took mine fom 154 HP at th wheel to 192.5. That and the sprintbooster, which eliminates that momentary lag in the throttle, literaly sets the Crossie on fire. You will love it.

You 18" rears will give you some help on accelerations. Have Tony reset you rev limiter for each gear. Yes, they can do that. I am at 6300 rpms in first, 2nd and third; 6000 in 4,5,6. Knowing the rear wheel size you may find my suggested shift points a little high.

I am about to go 18" on my rears just for the strip. I believe under the optimum track and air conditions you could break into the 13's without squirting NO2.


Use the search feature on this site for sources of these mods. Or just talk to Anthony @TVT or Tony and Gregg @ Eurocharged. These guys are true gearheads and will steer you right.

The CAA is Crossfires Across America. The event is this coming June 22,23,24 and will be held in St Louis MO. We are hosting several wine tour runs, some vendor events, St Louis city sights tours and a triple A Ball game event. We have track time at Gateway Intl Speedway on Tuesday for drag racing. And on Wednesday for oval track and autocross. Final dinner on Thursday we have the drawing for an Aeroblue SRT signed by Eric Stoddard. raffle tickets are limited to 350 and are selling for $100 each. Ticket sales will start as soon as the lawyer says we are legal.

Hope this helps and by the way, welcome to the best damm car forum in the country.


roadster with a stick
Wow, the CAA sounds like an amazing time. Hopefully by then I have my car pretty much setup.

What does the the TVT265 all include, and how much does it run?

From the sounds of it I'll be going with the 3" CAI probably a setup that runs behind the grill for some nice fresh air. After that I'll get the injectors, plugs, and prolly some new plug wires (while I'm at it) upgraded. After that maybe take it down and get it tuned out. Maybe get the exhaust on first depending on the funds at my disposal.

As for the tires, is going 18 all the way around pretty much just for drag? What are the benefits of going with the 18" in the rear? I've heard people say "No matter what you do with rims and tires, keep the stagger." Thoughts?

P.S. You couldn't be more helpful. All of you. I love how active this forum is.
 
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 12:03 PM
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From: Alabama
Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by Walters5507
I most definately have the 6-Speed. I would never go auto stick. So, now how many of your comments are useless to what I'm looking to find out?
With this strategey, it doesn't matter auto or stick. The same principles apply. To minimize elapsed time, you maximize horsepower (or torque) delivered at all times.
 
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by Walters5507
I most definately have the 6-Speed. I would never go auto stick. So, now how many of your comments are useless to what I'm looking to find out?
those words made me sick to my stomach. Have you EVER driven an SRT-6?
 
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 12:19 PM
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Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband


Ever since I started spending time on this site, my XFire and this site have almost become an addiction. I go from the site to car, from the car to the site, back and forth. My free-time is no longer free time. It’s XFire time… I’ve become utterly and completely infatuated with this beautiful, really cool car.[/QUOTE]

I will 100% second that.
 
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 12:31 PM
Franc Rauscher's Avatar
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From: St Louis MO
Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by Walters5507
Wow, the CAA sounds like an amazing time. Hopefully by then I have my car pretty much setup.

What does the the TVT265 all include, and how much does it run?

From the sounds of it I'll be going with the 3" CAI probably a setup that runs behind the grill for some nice fresh air. After that I'll get the injectors, plugs, and prolly some new plug wires (while I'm at it) upgraded. After that maybe take it down and get it tuned out. Maybe get the exhaust on first depending on the funds at my disposal.

As for the tires, is going 18 all the way around pretty much just for drag? What are the benefits of going with the 18" in the rear? I've heard people say "No matter what you do with rims and tires, keep the stagger." Thoughts?

P.S. You couldn't be more helpful. All of you. I love how active this forum is.
I can't speak for Tony's TVT 265 package. You should contact him.

Dropping tire and wheel size is effectively the same as lowering your rear end gear ratios. Only much quicker and you can go back to stocksize easy. I wouldn't do it permanently but for the track it might help lower my trap times.

From a handling stand point, the stagger seems to add stability. Plus the car is program to respond to the 19" wheels. TC and stability controls are set in that range. I don't know if such a change would effect these systems.

Some guys have done it or gone 20" all around. I am not inclined to try it for normal driving.

We have a Dragon meet this coming April 16th thru 18th. If you can get away, it is worth the trip. Dragon has had a rock slide but is open. So we may get to ru it as a closed course.

I'm trying to make room in my schedule. ss of now, doesn't look good.


roadster with a stick
 
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 01:05 PM
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Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by Headlock
those words made me sick to my stomach. Have you EVER driven an SRT-6?
No, I haven't driven the SRT-6 but I have driven Autostick. I understand the concept and it does do the same thing essentially. Personally, I'd rather have complete control. I want to know that when I shift it is going to do it at the exact rpm and time I want. When I'm going into a turn I need to know that when I downshift at the apex of the turn, it's going to grab and go. No delay, no maximum rpm reached, I want to toss in the clutch, throw it in gear, and let it fly.

I've always been an American Muscle kind of guy. Why? Because I know that when I step on the throttle there is nothing but straight power. There's no input or boost lag. I like to know that the things that I want are going to happen. To me, there is nothing better than a built 454 with 4 on the floor. You shift, it's goes. End of story.

If you're an autostick guy, then enjoy it. Personally, I'll never buy a car with autostick. But I guess it all comes down to preference my friend.
 
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 01:11 PM
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Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by Franc Rauscher
I can't speak for Tony's TVT 265 package. You should contact him.

Dropping tire and wheel size is effectively the same as lowering your rear end gear ratios. Only much quicker and you can go back to stocksize easy. I wouldn't do it permanently but for the track it might help lower my trap times.

From a handling stand point, the stagger seems to add stability. Plus the car is program to respond to the 19" wheels. TC and stability controls are set in that range. I don't know if such a change would effect these systems.

Some guys have done it or gone 20" all around. I am not inclined to try it for normal driving.

We have a Dragon meet this coming April 16th thru 18th. If you can get away, it is worth the trip. Dragon has had a rock slide but is open. So we may get to ru it as a closed course.

I'm trying to make room in my schedule. ss of now, doesn't look good.


roadster with a stick
Alright, I'll give Tony a shout out about his TVT265. As far as the wheels go, I'll be sticking with my stagger. I'm not a huge strip guy and I prefer to feel a car just stick to the pavement in a nice curve and just ride it out smooth. I have a feeling I will loose som of that if I go with the straight around.

I'm thinkin I might be able to make the trip to the Dragon work if it's on the weekend like that. As long as the road is open by then I'd love to go. Feel free to PM me about your experiences at the Dragon. I'd like to hear more about it from a first hand source.
 
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 01:36 PM
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Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by Walters5507
No, I haven't driven the SRT-6 but I have driven Autostick. I understand the concept and it does do the same thing essentially. Personally, I'd rather have complete control. I want to know that when I shift it is going to do it at the exact rpm and time I want. When I'm going into a turn I need to know that when I downshift at the apex of the turn, it's going to grab and go. No delay, no maximum rpm reached, I want to toss in the clutch, throw it in gear, and let it fly.

I've always been an American Muscle kind of guy. Why? Because I know that when I step on the throttle there is nothing but straight power. There's no input or boost lag. I like to know that the things that I want are going to happen. To me, there is nothing better than a built 454 with 4 on the floor. You shift, it's goes. End of story.

If you're an autostick guy, then enjoy it. Personally, I'll never buy a car with autostick. But I guess it all comes down to preference my friend.
The auto stick in the Crossie is unlike anything you have driven. It is more like a paddle shifter. I have one in my SRT and the guys are spot on. It is an incredible bit of machinery. I suggest you do not trifle with it's reputaion.

That said, I agree with your attitude about manual shifting. Despite the SRT's explosive acceleration (there is no boost lag, none, zip, nada). Go fast is very fast. Got it?), I prefer to participate in the vehicles movement over the ground. It is not "better", it is just more fun for me. Personal preference.

Be careful boasting about manual vrs auto here. The guys and gals get testy about their preferences but when you start comparing performance using "opinions" and "preferences" they will trounce you with the stats.

And, ususally be right.

Or jump in with boldness, and get and education. Friendly mostly.

roadster with a stick
 

Last edited by Franc Rauscher; 03-25-2010 at 01:40 PM.
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 01:41 PM
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From: West Bend, WI
Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by Franc Rauscher
The auto stick in the Crossie is unlike anything you have driven. It is more like a paddle shifter. I have one in my SRT and the guys are spot on. It is an incredible bit of machinery. I suggest you do not trifle with it's reputaion.

That said, I agree with your attitude about manual shifting. Despite the SRT's explosive acceleration (there is no boost lag, none, zip, nada). Go fast is very fast got it?), I prefer to participate in the vehicles movement over the ground. It is not "better", it is just more fun for me. Personal preference.

Be careful boasting about manual vrs auto here. The guys and gals get testy about their preferences but when you start comparing performance using "opinions" and "preferences" they will trounce you with the stats.

And, ususally be right.

Or jump in with boldness, and get and education. Friendly mostly.

roadster with a stick
Haha. Thanks for the heads up. I'll keep that in mind the next time I think about saying something in regards to auto and manual. I guess I'll just have to drive an SRT-6 and see what all the fuss is about.
 
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by Franc Rauscher
Hot NJK plugs are a good mod that I would only have believed on faith added performance until I saw it on the dyno.
What was the gain?
 
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 03:52 PM
Franc Rauscher's Avatar
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From: St Louis MO
Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by radmanly
What was the gain?
If I remember it restored the torque lost when they did the first tune. But in truth, I cannot remember the HP numbers.
Tony was inching HP and torque forward with multiple pulls but we did not print it out every time.

Sorry.

Keep in mind that when you add more fuel and air a second hot spark can help facilitate ignition.
Eurocharged may have some data on the plugs. They promote them so i imagine they have been asked to prove it.

franc
 

Last edited by Franc Rauscher; 03-25-2010 at 03:55 PM.
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 03:59 PM
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Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

OK. Can you recall if it was "a lot" or "a little?"

I'm wondering if this is an easy drop-in performance mod or do you only see benefits if you've had a tune?
 
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 04:27 PM
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Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

Originally Posted by radmanly
OK. Can you recall if it was "a lot" or "a little?"

I'm wondering if this is an easy drop-in performance mod or do you only see benefits if you've had a tune?
I wish I had a real number. I would say that it is a drop in, you don't have to do nuthin," change.

It might just be like ram air or a turbulator. It only works if you believe.


roadster with a stick
 
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010 | 04:51 PM
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Default Re: Optimal Shift Timing/Powerband

I want to believe!
 
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