I'd really like to know just how the Crossfire was used in these hearings because:

A. At the time the Crossfire was designed and started production Chrysler was owned by MB, run by MB execs, and totally controlled by MB

B. The Crossfire was produced in very limited quantities, and was originally intended to be produced in fairly limited quantities. Wasn't the initial idea to build something like 100,000 over a period of several years? That's lower production numbers than the supposedly "limited production" Corvette

C. You can't use a limited production car, designed under German ownership and built under contract from that German owner as an indication of the domestic car companies current woes. That's just stupid. But, I suppose, it's also Congress.


Consider this, too. The PT Cruiser is built in Mexico. It has been a HUGE sales success for Chrysler and was, for a few years, the number one selling Chrysler branded vehicle on the market.

 

If I would have been in there when they brought up this point I would have had only one thing to do.....

I would jump up and scream at the top of my lungs "Let's go out in the parking lot and see what all you politicians are driving!!!"

Last time I was in Washington D.C. I had the only remotely close to American car there......even the freakin' cabs were Toyota minivans!!!

 

Fellow Forum members my response is written purely from an academic view, undergraduate in Sociology and Graduate degree in Public Administration. I will write in the first person for fun.

The passing of NAFTA marked a new era in North American production. The big 3 along with foreign market competitors could operate plants outside of the United States without fear of being penalized. NAFTA also benefited the manufactors economically because the manufactors could relocate to Mexico or Canada and pay their employees a lower wage while maintaining a relatively high level of build quality, I am sure our Union Member will hate that comment. The high level of quality is a result of the automation that takes place in the production process. It is no longer 1945 where the manufacturing process requires a tremendous amount of hands on work. That is the appeal of the high end British and AMG products they are hand built.
Furthermore what economic sense does it make to me as a business leader to allow unionization to drain my economic resources. If I can relocate my plant to Canada, Mexico or a state/region that is traditionally non-union then I will. I have to be very aware of the total cost of my vehicle. That is why the foreign market competitors have been succesful. They utilize a non-union work force that they pay a fair wage, but not a white collar middle mangement wage to.
The Big Three are to blame for their failure. They were the ones that allowed the companies to be controlled by the UAW. They are the ones who insisted on the continual development of truck based platforms. They are the ones who neglected to address fuel economy except in the least attractive base model vehicles. The Big Three has thrived on the notion of size and power. It is no longer 1957, chrome and fins dont sell. They are pretty to look at, but they do not sell a car.
I believe that as a country we should not bail out the Big 3. They should be allowed to fail and file bankruptcy. The government then can step in and take control of the companies and attempt to guide them back to viability. There should be no reason why Dodge and Ford roll out new truck platforms. Gas has been declining in price for 2 months not two years. OPEC cut production less than a month ago. Historically the price of gas falls during an election cycle. The Big 3 is being led by traditional American automotive executives who do not understand the new business model that the European and Asian competitors understand and utilize. Emphasize fuel economy, reliability, style, and safety. Give the American market something to desire for, not to roll their eyes at as they drive past your empty lots filled with "new" vehicles that are two or three years old.

Feel free to flame away.
Jason

 

I have to say something to this comment when we here in Canada buy cars made in the States by the big three. We have the Auto trade agreement that somewhat balances the trade in autos. Yes we make cars that are sold in the US and treated as domestics, but we buy cars from the US that are treated as domestics here. With the US dollar mostly, except for a few months this year, having higher value than our dollar we can make cars cheaper than the US. In terms of quality we have plants here than are at the top of the ratings. We only see complaints when there is trouble. If we look back on most issues that our countries share then you will find that we have similar views and values.
By the way, if you look for the country that sells you the most oil, secure oil at that, then you do not have to look no farther than your northern border.

 

No flames from me Jason. I agree with what you posted. BTW, welcome to the forum. Are you a Crossfire owner?

 

Many of our problems is the old notions that Labor and Management are on two different sides and cannot cooperate. When times were good management gave the unions everything they asked for instead of making them partners in running the companies. Remember back when Henry Ford started building the Model-A (or was it the Model-T) and paid his employees the outragous wage of $5 a day (several times higher than average). The result was that they workers could afford to buy a car so Ford sold a lot more cars.

Now we have Ford execs making hundreds of millions of dollars a year in salary and bonus when the company is losing a billion dollars a month. Tell me where that makes sense.

The Big-3 represent millions of jobs in this country and have been mismanaged for so long I'm not sure anyone could put them back on track. It will take imaginative management and cooperation of the unions. I doubt this will ever happen.

I own two Chrysler products, my XF with two years left on its warranty and a Dodge RAM that is under warranty as long as I own it, or until Chrysler is no longer around to honor my warranties.

 

I am soon to be a X-Fire owner. With the current market value, I am going to trade in my 2003 VW Passat for 04 or 05 X-Fire. I am indifferent to color but the 6MT is a must. For the sake of insurance a coupe is a must as well. I would love a two tone interior, the cedar is amazing. I do not want the navigation system seems pointless when I can get a Garmin or Tom Tom with a screen for $200. Just waiting for my motorcycle to sell and my Christmas bonus to come in then its off to hunt for my X-Fire. I probably check the site 5-10 a day while at work! Considering an extended warranty from Chrysler if its available as well.

In reply what you see in Canada is the function of the business unit of the Big 3 without interference from the UAW. I have family that is dependent upon the success of Chrysler being able to make it through the economic mess right now. Many of you have been in contact with him at some point while you have been on the boards. As a graduate student who looks at organizational functions it is absurd not to compartively analyze the ability of Asain and European competitors to be able to succeed in the US. Honda, MB, Hyundai have all had success without unions. First is their emphasis on Six Sigma quality control, automation of the production process, and a decreased overall cost. They employees due have benefits but they are not at the level of a UAW employee. A recent CNN article highlighted the cost for an UAW employee, 80+ dollars an hour for an old UAW compared to 26+ for a new UAW employee. The companies cannot and will not survive unless something has been done about the unions, cost of operation, models that are not selling, and the reliance of the inefficient V-8 power wars to sell cars. It cannot be done in the current markets.

 

Where's Lee Iacocca when you need him ???

 

He’s enjoying his retirement (and pension $$$) and laughing at this.

 

I think that "skilled" union workers are a lot different than somebody that installs car parts on an assembly line all day. Skilled union workers are Carpenters, electricians, etc. People need to wake up and expect to be paid for their skill level and not because of their union affiiation. I am not against unions and believe they have their place. I have also seen unions defend workers no matter what they have done, even if they know it was wrong. About the only thing you can fire a union worker for nowadays is theft and drug use. It's time the unions wake up and change their ways or watch their "brothers" jobs go away!

 

They're all S-Class' and 7-Series BMW's

 

This is true. I have a double whammy. I work for the government AND have a union job. That is the only way you get fired. I am paid rediculous amounts of money for what work I do. I have to agree the union concept is broken and needs to be changed, but you won't see me complaing in the mean time.

 

Right on. It amazes me that fellow Americans earning good wages are seen as a problem.

 

Thoughtful post.

I think if the "Big 3" are too big to fail, they're too big to exist. If they hold that much sway over our economic future, break them up into completely separate entities. 3 poorly managed companies own about a dozen brands. Do you agree?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buran

...I work for the government AND have a union job...

No isht. You’ll note that government ‘workers,’ and I use the term loosely are, in fact, the only burgeoning segment of union membership. Pay your dues, brother, lest you be compelled to contribute an honest and fair share to society. The other ‘tards have already priced themselves out of any sense of reasonable viability.

 

I doubt that the Government could break the Big Three up using any of the current anti-trust legislation. There isnt legislation that would allow the Big 3 to be broken up for poor management. I think the best would be to allow bankruptcy occur appoint new leadership. Place a governement imposed freeze on the corporate assests, ensure lending can occur for new/use vehicle purchases (you have to keep the economic wheels turning somehow), purge the Big 3 of previous contractual agreements and old mentaltiy leadership. Attrack young non automotive minds into the sector and begin to rethink the whole process. The problem is we have intellectual decendants of Ford Jr any one the Edsel, and other North American automotive tradtionalist. The automotive traditionalist hangs onto unions, the belief that the jobs will come back has been the mindset of the regional university I am currently at. As I drive to work I see a landscape dotted by resturaunts and retail the life blood of a once vibrant community. Moral of the tangent is once union jobs leave they dont come back b/c those formers workers have a salary and benefit expectation that the company cannot or will not meet. Simply put financial demands made by the unions has broken the system. The Big 3 should have the UAW and associated unions strike, called in police and hired non union labor and offered full time with bennies and this problem would have been averted. Oh and some market analysis of the companies that were or held the largest share of the combined world markets would have helped too just maybe.

 

IG Metall represents the builders of our car. I suggest all crossfire owners take a look at their website to understand who have built are cars:

http://www.igmetall.de/cps/rde/xchg/...sl/view_GB.htm

Seems as though they are a very successful trade organization. 2.5 million members. If you read their goals, they are really just trying to keep the success of the company from going to the elite few that think they are stakeholders.

http://www.igmetall.de/cps/rde/xchg/.../view_7123.htm

Are UAW wages really that out of whack compared to the IG Metall's? How about work rules, pension, quality of life, vacation? Do our unions even come close to some of IG Metall's goals? Who is succeeding from our (crossfire owner's) collective wealth?

I don't think for a minute that Unions are to blame for the failures of any company. It is not the Union's job to cause the company to succeed, that's management's responsibility. The Union's job is to be champions of equitable pay, work rules, and benefits for their members.

 

How?
After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, He had some awful substance left with which He made a SCAB. A SCAB is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water-logged brain, and a combination backbone made of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles.


When a SCAB comes down the street, men turn their back and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out. No man has a right to SCAB as long as there is a pool of water deep enough to drown his body in, or a rope long enough to hang his carcass with. Judas Iscariot was a gentleman compared with a SCAB. For betraying his Master, he had character enough to hang himself. A SCAB HASN’T!


Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas Iscariot sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commission in the British Army. The modern STRIKE-breaker sells his birthright, his country, his wife, his children, and his fellow men for an unfulfilled promise from his employer, trust or corporation.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by aftcg

How?...

Grow a pair and run your own business. It’s easy, and then you can spread its wealth as you see fit.

c&p FTL

 

I don't either. I think the Big 3 are in trouble mostly for planning and designing cars that are less appealing (for different reasons) to the American driver than imports, and have been doing so for decades. It's awful that blame filters down to the workers. Americans have some nerve, I guess, expecting good wages and benefits. Why aren't they happy to accept Mexican wages so Detroit can turn a profit?