Well first off I know all of those who ordered are upset I don't blame any of you. I wouldn't post on a public forum or even hint at doing anything to Dan it's not wise and there's better ways to do things.

First thing did you pay with Visa or Mastercard and has it been more then 60 days?

If it hasn't been more then 60 days disput the charge with your bank, you didn't get what you paid for (some nothing at all)they will contact paypall to get your money back.
Those of you who did get there parts and they don't fit would need to send the item back with proof and a tracking number to provide to Visa so they can contact Paypall and get your money back.

Don't wait for him to decide if he can refund you likely he can't because the money was invested in the parts (makes sense to me) and I doubt he can afford to pay all of you out of pocket. Visa has insurance for these type of things it happens all the time.
But don't wait to disput it otherwise you may have to go to small claims and it's a big hassel.

 

I don't think we have a leg to stand on as far as taking any action against Dan/Cliff, we purchased these from JRI. The sorry thing is is Dan did deliver the goods to JRI and the only recourse they could have is if they had specs to make these to and they are out of spec. I really feel sorry for JRI getting scammed by Dan but the bottom line is I purchased these from JRI and I was told by them I was purchasing a direct fit bolt on side skirt and if JRI can not provide that product, it needs to refund my money ASAP. I'm also curious who is holding my money for shipping?

 

Hmm that will be bad since you paid JRI they would be the ones giving the refund and they would have to go after Dan and whoever else supplied the parts to them.

Rcom what's your take on the skirts can they be fixed I know earlier you said you wanted to look at them this weekend when you had time If there's only 10 orders and a fix is found it may not be as bad as it's being made out to be.

 

I live in California... Where abouts does he live?

 

His area code is 805 which comes up on a search as: S Cent. and Cent. Coastal California: Ventura County, Santa Barbara County: San Luis Obispo, Thousand Oaks, Carpinteria, Santa Barbara, Santa Maria, Lompoc, Santa Ynez Valley / Solvang

 

Sorry to see all this happen. I didn't get to read through the whole thread, just some bits and pieces.

The bad thing is that since JR took on the project they are going to be stuck with a "bad product" stigma for some time. Not to everybody of course, but there will be some people.

I give them a lot of props for not sending them out the way they sat and then just playing it off like the one they had at the shop fit perfect. I've seen so many companies do that it's ridiculous.

We've all fallen victim to Dan at this point, hell I even lost a wing to this *******.

I hope something good comes out of this and maybe you can use this as a write off. John and Rudy are good people and if they even had the slightest idea something like this would have happened they would have stopped this months ago.

If there is anything I can do to help the situation don't hesitate to ask. I'm Italian so I'm sure I have a cousin that is good at "fixing" these sort of problems.

 

I personally, don't blame John, Rudy or JR at all. Just sucks the way Dan snaked his way into a positive thing and screwed people again. He "will" get his.

Hopefully I will finally get these skirts and "try" to make them work.

HE WILL GET HIS. HOPEFULLY HE GETS AUDITED BY THE "IRS" AND THEY TAKE EVERY PENNY HE HAS!

 

Hey Johnny, go ahead and work on them and see if you guys can come up with the fix on these. As longs as I know you guys are working this and I am still getting a good product from you, I am willing to give you guys the time to fix the skirts. I would rather get the product instead of a refund personally. But I could use the $465 back to buy some new Dress Blues.

 

PM: Crossfire Forum Violence
I as a moderator received a PM from BrianBrave
Here is a bit of what he said and I responded to him with a PM.
Here is some of what he said and my response.......

BrianBrave:
I am a little shocked at the actions some of you moderators are participating in, and the actions you are allowing to other forum members to use the Crossfire forum for.
With all the recent legal action in the news about people inciting violence and hatred via the internet onto other human beings - I would think you would put a stop this - and now! You are vulnerable not only to criminal action, but to civil lawsuits.
If anything were to ever happen to Dan - I will see to it that the people who own and the moderators who operate this forum, and failed to enforce their own rules about disclosing personal information, vulgarity, violence, etc... be held fully accountable.

Valks (my) response
Brian,
I understand your concerns here regarding the threats/violence etc.
Also know that if the thread was closed another would be started and these actions would continue.
I assume your Dan's friend and understand why you feel strongly about what is happening here.
From all I have read Dan has done a deceptive thing here and really is accountable for what is happening now as a end result.
Certainly I don't condone harm to anyone as a resolution to the problem .
Yes he did provide the product but not as it was represented from what has been show and said by JRI.
__________________________________________________ ________
So I ask everyone to please refrain from posts of this nature.
I do understand the anger that has arose from all this

 

Thanks Valk - I appreciate this - If anyone wants to know the truth (at least has I know it) - please feel free to PM me.

 

Why not post here? We would all like to know the truth.., as you know it.

 

BrianBrave: If anyone wants to know the truth (at least has I know it) please feel free to PM me.

Yes Brian I agree.
Provide a post of your side of this story to clarify anything that has not been said yet about what went down on this whole project/Group Buy.
A open post is what we would like to see here and if you have some info that has not been revealed now is a good time to tell your side of this story.

 

Skipping further drama, please ship mine with PM'd instructions.. Thanks

 

Sorry guys, I just got on since this morning. What violence are we talking about? I just see a lot of people venting. I see no threats being made against anyone. I'm sure everyone here is just upset at Dan's tactics and no one is about to take any physical action against Dan. He wouldn't be worth the trouble. If anything it might be legal action.

As to his phone number, it's public record and his location is listed on his profile.

 

I am willing to listen to Brian's side of the story. I preface that, however, with the statement that anyone defending this Dan character will have a serious credibility issue to overcome.

 

Absolutely! Dan came in here and deceived everyone. That said, I expected JRI to do due diligence on “him” to make sure everything was legit before making the group buy. That’s what convinced me to buy in. And now, I expect JRI to upright the boat.

 

First let me say that I understand the misgivings of the forum members who participated in the group buy and put up their hard earned cash. This is why I’ve never participated in group buys. I can also understand the other members who want to post their comments or opinions. I do the same; and often.

I’m not here to defend Dan Root or to diss JR Industries. I don’t have all the facts to do either. But I feel strongly that this forum should not be used to make threats of violence; veiled or real, to anyone. There’s enough crap in this world. It’s OK to be pissed and to vent – but I tend to look at the brighter side. That’s usually where solutions are found. Boiling blood only grows the problem. - - And you all have a problem you need to solve.

I spoke with Dan and I told him I’m not going to be his mouth piece on the forum. If Dan was banned for being an annoying fart with his large font’s and constant selling pitches to everyone, on every thread – that’s his problem. But Dan was not banned from this forum for ripping anyone off. He has never taken money from anyone and then not delivered the product. I believe this to be true.

As far as this group buy goes, Dan as told me he delivered his product to JR Industries. I saw them – I believe it.

Beyond that – you should call Dan direct if you feel you have dealings with him – or if you just want to know what his role was in this whole affair and just when JRI knew they were dealing with "Dan Root" and why they continued to send him money and not say anything. You deserve that and he said he would take your call and even wondered why no one has called him. You have his number (ebay or his website or above) he does not have yours nor can he PM you (obviously). Give him a call if you participated in the group buy.

I personally think both sides share some blame for hiding “Cliff” and perhaps “Cliff” himself should have PM’ed the members in the group buy (and JRI) and revealed himself early in the game - or before post #479 . I think that would have been the right thing to do.

I really don’t how to solve your problem from here – If you sent your money to “Cliff” or if you sent your money to JRI. Whoever it was - is the one that should refund your money. (IMO)

Now regarding the side-skirts… When I first saw this thread I thought “how ricer” and never followed it until a few day ago. Dan call me and asked me If I would lend a hand fitting one – I said sure – expecting something grotesque and getting a good chuckle.

In truth they look really good. They really do – so much so that I purchased an extra set that he had.

The manufacturer got the outside dimensions spot on. Problem was with the inside dimensions at the very inner part of the wheel wells. Tolerances for the thicker fiberglass VS the OEM plastic was not taken into account (that’s the manufactures fault) and this area (about 2” – 3” on each wheel well) needed to be ground down. Even then it was a little tight, but very do-able. On the OEM units there is a seperate plastic “L” bar that's fused onto the skirts that snaps into the clips on the front and rear fender and the kick panel. I will make these from a piece of off-the-shelf aluminum angle and epoxy them into place. Slip on – slip off. I didn't care for Dan's solution - nor do I think the brackets in the wheel well that you have seen in the pictures are necessary.

There may be a need to enlarge the mounting holes on the bottom on a few units - but mine are spot on.

The bottom line is that I like them and will gladly show them off and just how I modified them with you folks on the forum. But I knew up front I was going to have to modify and fit when I purchased them – I’m not at all saying that should be acceptable to the members in the group buy. I’m not saying that JRI should do this for you – but once I modified one, I could bang out the other 30 or so sets in one day – and finished them the next (once the epoxy cured). I would do that to keep my customers happy.

Then fix the inside fit issue at the factory for follow on orders.

BTW – Flexible plastic would not have been the way to go on these units. If you remove the OEM skirts – you will find a metal brace that is used along the side of the frame to brace the plastic and prevent from collapsing. With the wider aftermarket skirt – this area would have no brace and become an issue – I think fiberglass was the way to go.

Good luck guys....

 

First I'd like to say that friends with Dan or not Brian, you cannot avoid the fact that Dan is not holding up his end of the deal. If he was, we wouldn't be having this problem. Below are emails from Dan, the first outlining that he would handle all refunds and that he guaranteed these to fit because the manufacturer did so as well. We've given him more than enough chances to make this right and so far he hasn't done anything to do so. He held the skirts hostage saying he wouldn't send them until he was sent the remaining $5000 and he refused to send a set for us to fit before sending them. He then started emailing me about what it took to install them after the sideskirts were en route to us. Funny he couldn't be more descriptive before the fact but rather had to wait until they were already out of his hands.

Email from Dan to me on May 8th, 2009:
Hi Rudy ,
This is I believe is the balance numbers . I'll no longer be using this yahoo email address so please send to danwanpen@aol.com . You see my post also on the AMG thread. If you wish to continue doing any business with me regarding the skirts I'll need confirmation by the time you receive these skirts. If not then I'll proceed with others. Since the manufacture guarantees fitment to all customers through me I'll be the person who takes all problems and handles all refunds. You may explain this or not that is up to you. I suggest these sideskirts be installed & painted by professional bodyshop only.
Daniel C. Root

Email from Dan to me today on May 20th, 2009:
Rudy,

I'm having the front corner L piece shaped and ready to apply for skirts this will have to be epoxy or resin on by installer maybe 15 minutes. I'm going to have 60 made min asap and will ship out to all on my list with a letter of explanation & instructions >

And in that letter I will also detail "our "deal that is now voided by you and Jonny, and how you Rudy wanted to raise the price after first 25 were sold and how my price to you was $270 instead of $350 for those after the first 25 so on and so on.
Also I will not refund ANY of the group because Jonnys' statements and FP & others that have slammed me on the forum regarding this for no reason ! THIS will be proven shortly by others that have installed their skirts ! I will let others be my evidence for me as to the fact that these skirts fit as best they possibly could for after market skirts.


I will not take any more calls from you or anyone connected to you anymore until I get a full and written apology from all that have slammed me.You, Jonny, FP Tazz, BHays etc. all or nothing got it ! I'm done.

And send those who HAVE repeatedly ask for their skirts shipped to them NOW !

and this is my reply to the above email:
Dan,

I don't know who you think you are kidding but you're the one not following through with your end of the agreement. The product isn't right and WE are the ones that make that decision, not you. Just because you took the money from the group buy and purchased more sets which you clearly indicate by the fact that you are having 60 brackets made is fraud. I need Extreme Dimensions to fax or email me directly, any and all transactions that took place between them and you. If you used funds from the group buy to purchase more, we (all members of the group buy) will bring charges against you for this felonious activity. Like I said on the phone, you decided that you wanted to take control of everything and now it's time to pay up for a product that isn't right. Take it for what it is, this is a very serious matter and your neglecting to take care of it will have serious repercussions.

Rudy

Also, I'd like to note that both myself and Jon have poured through all correspondence with Dan/Cliff and we can't find anything that would lead us to believe that the following would be acceptable means of affixing a sideskirt to the car. I know it was said that double sided tape was all but completely off limits but to be fair to Dan, no one said anything about hardware store "L" brackets and sheetmetal screws. Just making a point that he knew what was expected and has failed to produce the advertised results. The worst part is that the voices of those that made this possible (group buy members) mean nothing to Dan because if they did, he would be figuring out how to get Extreme Dimensions to take them back instead of how to keep the everyone from getting refunds from him for a bunk product. The group as a whole should have been the ones that decided if they were acceptable or not and clearly from what everyone has posted, they are not.









These pictures clearly show that these are nowhere near a direct replacement. The pictures above more than adequately prove that these weren't made correctly. The use of screws and "L" brackets to hold it to the car and the fact that the bottom is pushing away from the underside of the car make this quite clear. You can see plain as day in the third image down that the bottom of the sideskirt is pushing away from the car low enough it could be ripped easily from the car.

Lastly, and I am purely speculating this but the logic is sound, I would venture that the reason he didn't tell Extreme Dimensions that they aren't good enough is that he purchased the mold, and all the additional sideskirts with money that was from the members of the group buy and in turn that would mean he would have to cough up the mold costs out of his own pocket this time for real and still pay everyone back including those he presold these to that weren't part of the group buy. It is the only conclusion I can come to. Why else would you be willing to accept these things when the manufacturer said they guaranteed fitment and they don't fit right? All he has to do is have Extreme Dimensions provide documentation showing that the costs of the sideskirts for the group buy members was $11K without the mold costs since he is saying he purchased those and the additional sets out of pocket with his own money. Maybe I need to put on my tin foil hat.

Jon is getting back into town tonight/early tomorrow morning and we will be working all weekend to come up with a solution that doesn't require people to drill into their cars like Dan would suggest.

I'd also like to take the time to thank the other vendors on this forum for offering to help us in whatever way they can to get this product right for everyone.

 

BrianBrave:
I am a little shocked at the actions some of you moderators are participating in, and the actions you are allowing to other forum members to use the Crossfire forum for.
With all the recent legal action in the news about people inciting violence and hatred via the internet onto other human beings - I would think you would put a stop this - and now! You are vulnerable not only to criminal action, but to civil lawsuits.
If anything were to ever happen to Dan - I will see to it that the people who own and the moderators who operate this forum, and failed to enforce their own rules about disclosing personal information, vulgarity, violence, etc... be held fully accountable

What a joke, Did you get a free set of sideskirts for sticking up for this crook! Thats great, that you got them before everyone else! Dan or cliff, whatever his name is, Becareful with the company you keep, It says alot about some-ones character. I hope everything gets worked out!

 

Firstly for Brianbrave,

Telling people not to insult or threaten Dan is akin to kicking us in the ***** after we've already been slapped. He is a crook and knowingly and purposefully used this forum for his own financial gain. Obviously you're his friend or related or what ever and it shows. Post your solution or don't, but the fact is you knew what was going on and did not warn anyone and that makes you just as guilty. You posted as a responsible forum member looking out for your friend Dan. Boy oh boy where was your morals and mamby pamby BS when you knew your friend was stealing?

Secondly, I will wait for JR to post an acceptable solution to this so the skirts won't come off while I'm on the pothole ridden streets of NYC as I often am. If you cannot guarantee this I want a full refund. No hard feelings guys but this is just unnaceptable. I wanted a factory replacement part, if it doesn't look it I don't want it.

Thirdly,

To the forum mods, you can dicipline me if you want but I think you should have IP banned Dan from the begining, HOW THE MOTHER LOVIN HELL DID HE GET BACK ON THE FORUMS? HOW DID HE POLUTE THIS FORUM AGAIN????

Ugh, OK JR please keep me informed and if you can make these things look factory then I will keep them. But know if they get to my door and I am not satisfied I will expect a full refund. Sorry guys, it kills me to say that since you guys seem to have been F'ed majorly by this scum bag.

Also, I love how he steals other peoples images and pawns them off as his own and even puts his trademark on it. I mean, seriously this is just to F'ing funny.