I can understand why. I think it would be very difficult for one person alone to do it.
Basically, it would be doing what an entire company has to do... all on one person. That is to say if one was going to do it the right way.

I guess people get all excited about it, realize how difficult it is... then never come back. lol
I am not saying it is easy at all... but I have seen people here talking about swapping to larger engines, super charging NA trims, TT NA trims... I mean it can be done, the question is how deep are your pockets. The person who does it first is always going to be spending the money, after it is done (and done right), it is just a matter of putting parts together in kits if there is demand... in which case the person who did do it first could easily get all the money he invested back.

The problem is there are a lot more ways to fail... and one way to succeed in this.

But it is always easier to say "just buy an SRT"... until someone does pull it off and makes a kit then you will not find many people saying "just buy an SRT".

Now, who wants to be the first one/group to pull it off? lol

 

it not that it's easy to say just buy an SRT, it practicality...you are talking about R&D, MB did that already...they built the AMG motor...we just tweek what they already have done... Do you realize you can about buy the whole car for MB has in the AMG32 motor...so, to me, you just buy that motor, they throw in the car...you start modding it and go fast...all for under 20K....your way, you would have 20K in R&D, plus have to buy the car...

 

It's not difficult for one person to do.

Strictly speaking, a turbocharger has more potential power output than a supercharger. A turbo has a higher BSFC than a centrifugal or lysholm supercharger so it will eat more fuel.

I imagine at some point, someone will iron-sleeve the M112, overbored to 3.3L, with forged pistons, forged rods, do some minor headwork, put in a standalone controller, larger injectors, twin GT35R turbos, run 2 bar boost and make 700whp. They'll push it through the 6MT, run it through an SL65 AMG LSD rear diff, axles, and 335mm tires under widened wheel arches.

Wake up sono! Wake up!

 

lmao, if it is so easy then why don't you do it tomorrow afternoon and post up your results?

 

I don't believe he said it was easy, just technicaly possible. Read the list of mods and conversion parts. It would also be expensive.

just my humble opinion.

roadster with a stick

 

I hope it was clear that I was daydreaming. But yes, it is possible. But the real difficulty is not technical, nor is it fabrication. The real difficulty is in parting with the money required in the biggest economic recession in 20 years

 

The problem shouldn't be the hardware, but the software, as well some type of longevity testing to ensure reliability. Piecing the hardware shouldn't be a problem. A turbo costs like 600-700.00. You then have to find someone to make an exhaust manifold where the turbo will be mounted, which may be the hardest part. Then of course, you have to make tubing, add a blow off/diverter valve, and some type of wastegate control. Depending on boost and the motor itself, an intercooler. I run a 10psi blower on my Corrado VR6 and it's completely fine without an intercooler, for example.

The real issue is how strong the motor is. Obviously the SRT6 is built to run boost, but what's the difference, mechanically, in the motor of the NA coupe vs the srt6? Since the motor in the crossfire is aluminum and in NA form I don't think (but I'm not sure), it's really designed with boost in mind. So if no one has seen the limits of the NA motor with boost, I think that needs to be determined.

As far as tuning, this is going to be the issue. What sort of ECU does this car have? Is it a Bosch Motronic unit for example? The best way to tune a car with mild boost would be to find someone who can ECU-tune the car. I thought TVT had some experience here? If so, this would be probably the biggest part of the job. Of course the other way to do this (and not always ideal), which is what I have on my corrado, is to have someone design a chip that takes care of the timing, but not the fuel. For fuel run a rising rate FPR and if necessary, run an inline fuel pump depending on the injector situation. That's worked very well for many years for me.

Of course, all of this could potentially be avoided if someone took the bold step of adding a standalone setup to their car! :-)

I think a solid 10psi turbo on one of these cars would be perfect. It should net over 300hp at the crank, which for me, would be enough. And I would think the torque would be just about the same. Assuming of course, the correctly sized turbo is used.

The other issue that people seem to be ignoring is compression ratio in relation to boost. How much boost can a NA motor run before a headspacer or different pistons need to be employed to lower CR?

Just some thoughts from my own experiences adding forced induction to a car that was naturally aspirated from the factory.

 

Anything is possible with enough money but there comes a point where you have to ask yourself is it worth it to pour a ton of money into a car that you will lose your @ss on when you go to sell it or to just buy one that is already fast and make it faster.

 

The NA motor, like any other motor, could run on any compression ratio by varying the octane value of the fuel used. I suppose on a car running E85-only, the stock compression ratio could be used up to 1 bar or more.

Of course, the next thing to go in the chain of events are usually the piston ringlands, especially when the cylinder pressure increases by 15-20%. The rods, I'm quite sure have plenty of strength in them. The rods on the engine are much beefier than what you'd find on, say, a Toyota 1UZ-FE Gen1.

 

Yeah, I seem to remember someone putting 500HP in a K car. Wonder what he got for that mongrel?


roadster with a stick

 

Not sure of who put money in a dodge k car but that is a little off topic on what this thread is about.


If you guys with the N/A crossfires want to be a little faster you can always just throw some nitrous on there and be done.

 

Definitely true. This is why there are a lot more people who go for big power on cheaper cars like DSMs, SRT4's, and pickup trucks with small blocks than on expensive cars. It makes more financial sense to mod a cheap crappy car than it does an expensive luxury car. For most tuners, the automobile consists of two parts, the engine and the tires. The rest of it is just there to connect the two together as the whole assembly rolls down the track.

I still think of the SRT6 as its own separate entity, with its own speciality - no other supercharged Crossfire could ever lay claim to the AMG name. But let's face it, the 3.2L M112 engined base Crossfire is already a fast car, it's rear-wheel drive and a great platform to start from. Its destiny somewhere in the future, is big big power.

 

Having a one of a kind car is what it is all about but keep the cost of it all in mind. the tuning on adding a turbo to the crossfire may be a little difficult. You would need to talk to inmotion or one of the other tuners to see what they think.

You are looking at some big bucks though if you plan to do it right and a hell of a lot of hours of work to try and get it to be reliable.

 

You need to be realistic here. No one's going to run their car on high octane race fuel. Nor are people going to be running on e85. In order to sell these kits to people, they need to be designed to run at a given amount of boost, with a specific CR (either stock or reduced depending on what the ECU does at a given boost level) on 93 octane. If you want a 500hp monster, you'r kind of on your own. A 8-10psi turbo "kit" will be very do-able for most people, I suspect.

That definitely depends on the engine. The bottom end on a VW VR6 (again, the engine I know) is fine until over 15 psi of boost. Over 10-12 psi (depending on who you talk to), you need to lower CR, and over 15 or so, it's time to talk about new rods. In my own personal experience, you can bolt on 100hp to certain motors without a problem and without extensive bottom end work.

Of course, no one really knows what will happen to a NA motor when boost is applied. And this is part of the R&D process, which is why I would rather have a known shop like TVT (or other) develop a kit as opposed to Joe C. CrossfireOwner doing it on his own. At the end of the day, the money one spends on the car needs to justify the output. If I have to dig into the motor for 8psi on a NA crossfire, then to me, it's not worth the time or expense. Make a 8-10psi turbo kit for 5k that is generally a bolt-on (and doesn't require taking off the head) affair and yeah, I'll be on board--assuming the vehicle is R&D'd correctly.

 

Tuning cars is a hell of a lot of fun, if you guys would want to seriously look at doing this the easiest route would be a remote mount turbo. If it was me and I wanted to throw the money at it I would call these guys:

http://www.ststurbo.com/

It would be the easiest install out there.

 

Not really off point. I know it's hard to believe but i was actually supporting your point. Is it really worth spending Thousands, up to $15K or more to get an NA to run like a stock SRT?

If you want HP, then give up the Manual tranny, which we haven't even discussed here. I would worry that it, and the clutch, can handle 300-400HP. If you want a manual tranny go to Nitros for the times your wimpy 229HP engine comes up against a local street racer.

It makes little sense to consider the manual tranny if you want to drag race or do quick quarter mile runs. For motor cross, the manual is useful. I had no trouble keeping up with the SRT crowd at the Dragon,.....untill we got to a straight away...... then, they were gone.


roadster with a stick

 

The question from my perspective. Is someone just trying to make a one off version or a potential business case for a turbo kit? If one off then that person will have spent lots of dollars to say they have a fast car. Many fast cars already exist. The M112K motors I think would tolerate more boost than they see today. So from a mechanical standpoint I think the hardware should not be much of an issue. The real issue becomes in the R&D of the tuning. To make this turbo version reliable, much time and effort would need to be spent. This means in all likely hood at least a donor motor or 2. It would be interesting and a project I would like to participate in. Maybe Waldig, TVT, LET and others could also participate.

 

Again, ChuckNorris has a WORKING Eaton on his car. He is still working on tuning but says he has been using it for a daily driver without issue. He is also planing on selling complete kits. Here is the link....

https://www.crossfireforum.org/forum...official+eaton


MikeR

 

Oh, I misunderstood your post then. Sorry about that.

 

If I'm interpreting you correctly, you're speaking from the perspective of a potential buyer of a turnkey solution, and that's totally valid. I personally was addressing the issue from the perspective of the tuning equivalent of say, RUF. There's room in the market for both types.

The issue I have with going for "low boost" kits is that such a kit would have to be fairly cheap in order to compete with the obvious alternative, which is simply purchasing the SRT6. The advantage of someone developing a "monster" so to speak is that they are able to achieve something that could not readily be achieved with bolt-ons on the SRT6. What SRT6 owner would completely rebuild their AMG engine to make "really big" power? Not many, if any. The reason being that once they do that, their car really ceases to be an SRT6, and the original economic advantage gained from buying an SRT6 is lost.

That's my "go big or go home" perspective. Whether it's realistic or not is perhaps dependent on personal resources. If you're ever in the DC area we can meet for drinks and argue about this further

Well, a few do, we just don't hear much from them, ChuckNorris, for example is running on 10psi.