Some of us drive big vehicles because we have to. You know, to haul stuff. There was no TV ad that sent me to the dealer. Nobody convinced me to buy my one ton Dodge. I needed it for my business.

Buying a diesel seemed like a good idea when it was less than a buck a gallon. Same goes for my honkin big diesel Benz. Now, of course, diesel is obscenely priced and nobody can explain why. I bought a gas version of the Benz 'cause often, it is cheaper to drive....and much faster.
I don't mind Detroit making "huge profits" if they are selling something i want. But Oil companies are selling something I need. They are expoiting an unfair situation. And our government lets them do it.

Yeah, I see big SUV's full of kids with Mom barely visible behind the wheel. Laugh at her if you want to. But, can you blame her? A fuel efficient car folds up like a Pepsi can. That's her kids she's hauling and I don't fault anyone for putting as much vehicle as possible around them.

Why so many Pepsi can little death trap cars? Government mandates that require corporate fuel averages. Detroit has to make the little Sh*t cars to get their fleet averages down. And the Government says "we want even more!" And, oh yeah, "we want you to do it with less effecient fuels so we can burn corn instead of eating it."

I doubt our government can find solutions. Most of our elected officials are too busy getting re-elected to step up to the plate and provide leadership. Untill we break the cycle of dependency that many of our citizens ( who vote) have on Washington, we are not likely to see leadership.

We need another Truman, another Reagan, another Lee Iaccoca. Guys who cut the crap and get something done, not because it's popular, but because it's the right thing to do.

roadster with a stick

 

There are no refineries in Iran. You have to wonder who is subsidizing that!


roadster with a stick

 

in jersey which is supposed to be one of the cheaper states i just filled up for $3.72 a gal for premium.

 

buy a prius ... add extra batteries and a solar panel roof ... cost u a extra 6k and give u first 40 - 50 miles on pure electric on a overnight charge.

some guy in cali did this ... too bad batteries need to be replaced so often, no ?

 

A Prius does 0 to 60 in how many minutes?


roadster with a stick

 

Untrue. I have folded up a pepsi can or two in my time, and today's fuel efficient cars "ain't no pepsi cans". Quote me.

From an engineering viewpoint, you have to understand that the US federal government, japanese, german, swiss, etc. governments maintain regulatory agencies that communicate with all the car manufacturers around the world to make sure that they are all designed to play nice with each other on the road whenever they collide.

Ever notice how modern SUV's have super-low bumpers? That's not because it looks "cooler" that way. It's because all cars are designed to have the bumper at the same level, so that the crush zones all meet at the exact same height.

Every street legal production car is crash tested in the exact same way with the exact same force into a stationary brick wall with a bit of crumple zone, which means that a five star rating honda civic is tested against a 35 mph frontal collision against the equivalent of a one-billion ton SUV traveling at the same speed. And it still gets the same safety rating as an Escalade.

That's how engineering works.

Now, it's possible to jack a fresh new 2008 Lincoln Navigator up and reinforce every part of the body with 1200 lbs of 1/4" wall, 3" diameter 4130 chromoly tube, but all you are doing is making it more unsafe for other people on the road and absolutely no safer for you.

Next is the topic of highway and road design. Civil engineers do some very clever things. The divided highway, for example - designed that way because while cars are designed to protect their occupants at speeds around 40 mph and below, car manufacturers still depend on God and Prayer when it comes to impacts at 60+mph. There's just no way yet to economically and comfortably protect flesh-sacks in high-speed crashes with other cars. So what the highway engineers do is just keep all traffic moving in one direction and all the traffic coming the other way on the other side of a very big ditch or a concrete wall.

All this so that when you buy a prius or a civic and you don't have to worry that you're putting your life or others at risk.

I think that, at a different time in US motoring history, economy cars would have been dead meat on wheels. But as progress marches on, we try to paint the roads a little differently and make the cars a whole lot safer for the people driving them.

 

OK Sonoronos. I won't dispute your engineering. Small cars built today far surpass the vehicles built back in say, the '70s

But.... I have spent a good part of my life as a paramedic/rescue worker. Extracted a lot of folks out of cars. My opinion, and it is just that, is that the bigger the vehicle, the better the condition of the victims. Big car vrs little, however well engineered, the big car always wins.

To put a point on it, Diamler Benz designed both my 420 sel and my Crossfire. In a contest with another vehicle, I would prefer to be in the 420 with 4600 lbs of mass assisting my survival.

In an attempt to get back on the subject of this thread, My 420 gets 15/21 miles to the gallon while the Crossfire gets 23/30. A Dodge Neon supposedly gets 28/35 MPG and one could easily get caught dead in it.


But not me or my kids.



roadster with a stick

 

I agree that some people do need a truck for work, but not as many people who actually do own trucks. My dad for example has an F-150 Supercrew 4 X 4 which he occasionally drives to Lowe's to pick something up. Look, my opinion is largely formed by having lived in Germany for several years. As far as I know, they have the same occupations in Germany, but very few Germans are driving trucks or SUVs. Station wagons rule the day and the few trucks you do see are Nissan and Toyota and are mostly all diesel with small diesel motors.

And yes, if an F-150 collides with my Xfire, I'm probably toast. The point is that the whole country needs to downsize what they're driving. If everyone takes the attitude that they'll drive something smaller when everyone else starts driving something smaller, what's the point? Ultimately, gas prices are going to depict what people drive and it's already starting.

By the way, a Prius isn't really all that slow. 0-60 in 9.7 There are plenty of cars out there in that acceleration range. The Camry Hybrid runs to 60 in 7.3. That's plenty fast for a family sedan. Nobody's asking anyone to buy a Prius, they're actually quite expensive. Hell, if people would just drive full size sedans vs trucks and SUVs, the difference in oil demand would be huge.

I will also say that we Americans are power hungry drivers. I'm as guilty as the next guy. In Germany, home of the wonderful Autobahn, most cars ironically have much less power than here. Most cars in Germany have very tepid acceleration compared to our cars. They'll still go 120 on the Autobahn, but it takes them a long time to get up to speed. Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Volkswagen's best selling models in Germany have much smaller motors than the smallest motor's available here in the same models. BMWs and Mercedes with 1.8 liter 4 bangers and about 140hp are quite common. Germans can appreciate a fine automobile even if it's slow to get up to speed. When I read German car magazines I am blown away by what they consider a good acceleration time compared to our magazines. Cars in this country have become very fast in the last decade, even economy cars.

 

. When I read German car magazines I am blown away by what they consider a good acceleration time compared to our magazines. Cars in this country have become very fast in the last decade, even economy cars.[/quote]

I can't dispute a word you've said here. But there is another perpective.
I can't tell you the numbers of GI's that found inexpensive cars in Europe when stationed there, who couldn't believe what they had to spend for mods in order to bring one home to the US.
Why? Because of the mandates. A considerable amount of engineering in the US goes to meet government mandates. It's hard and a little unfair to make direct comparisons without including those facts.

I am, apparently, one of a shrinking population of citizens who does not feel guilty about owning and driving a large vehicle. Your dad should drive what he wants and what he has earned the right to buy. Not what our government says he ought to drive. And I don't mind it if GM, Ford or Toyota makes a ton of dough by successfully competing for my money.

I object to the Government mandating, directly or indirectly, my vehicle choice but, at the same time, not doing anything to Oil companies who no longer have to compete for my dollar. As has been said here many times, oil companies all sell the exact, same stuff.

Just recently, DC is mandating higher fuel economy standards for the industry that is struggling to survive and not a word from Congress about oil company profits. These are the folks we elected to look out for our interests. They tell me "for the good of America and the world, you should drive a smaller car." Given their performance lately, I will politely refuse the request.

Chrysler came back from bankruptcy by providing what people would buy. Lee Iaccoca wasn't happy with mandates but focused instead on competing with good products. I don't remember K car ads extolling their compliance with government rules. Laugh at the K car but it saved the company and then they covered the highways with minivans.


Innovation works best when Free Enterprise is allowed to work.


roadster with a stick

 

And as far as global warming goes, I guess the thousands of leading climatologists around the world are all full of ****. Yeah, I'm sure they're all wrong. Yes, I've thought about it now, I know far more than they do. What a bunch of dumb asses they are. [/quote]


dkniess,

To which "thousands" of leading climatologists are you refering? The ones who believe global warming is our fault or the ones who don't

Just trying to get a read on your position here'......'


roadster with a stick