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crank and cam sensors: whatsdat?

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Old 08-19-2020 | 05:44 PM
phil alvirez's Avatar
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Default crankshaft and camshaft sensors: whatsdat?

considering how important they are, 1st, lets give a look at what on earth are the sensors and why they use hall effect sensors:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor
perhaps the reason why they are used is this: Hall effect devices (when appropriately packaged) are immune to dust, dirt, mud, and water. These characteristics make Hall effect devices better for position sensing than alternative means such as optical and electromechanical sensing.
and:
A Hall effect sensor may operate as an electronic switch.
  • Such a switch costs less than a mechanical switch and is much more reliable.
  • It can be operated at higher frequencies than a mechanical switch.
  • It does not suffer from contact bounce because a solid state switch with hysteresis is used rather than a mechanical contact.
  • It will not be affected by environmental contaminants since the sensor is in a sealed package. Therefore, it can be used under severe conditions.
In the case of linear sensor (for the magnetic field strength measurements), a Hall effect sensor:
  • can measure a wide range of magnetic fields
  • is available that can measure either North or South pole magnetic fields
  • can be flat

When electrons flow through a conductor, a magnetic field is produced. Thus, it is possible to create a non-contacting current sensor. The device has three terminals. A sensor voltage is applied across two terminals and the third provides a voltage proportional to the current being sensed. This has several advantages; no additional resistance (a shunt, required for the most common current sensing method) need to be inserted in the primary circuit. Also, the voltage present on the line to be sensed is not transmitted to the sensor, which enhances the safety of measuring equipment.
also lets see what is told here. https://www.2carpros.com/questions/2...r-cars-sensors
 

Last edited by phil alvirez; 09-30-2020 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 08-19-2020 | 07:03 PM
onehundred80's Avatar
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From: Ontario
Default Re: crank and cam sensors: whatsdat?

Originally Posted by phil alvirez
considering how important they are, 1st, lets give a look at what on earth are the sensors and why they use hall effect sensors:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor
perhaps the reason why they are used is this: Hall effect devices (when appropriately packaged) are immune to dust, dirt, mud, and water. These characteristics make Hall effect devices better for position sensing than alternative means such as optical and electromechanical sensing.
and:
A Hall effect sensor may operate as an electronic switch.
  • Such a switch costs less than a mechanical switch and is much more reliable.
  • It can be operated at higher frequencies than a mechanical switch.
  • It does not suffer from contact bounce because a solid state switch with hysteresis is used rather than a mechanical contact.
  • It will not be affected by environmental contaminants since the sensor is in a sealed package. Therefore, it can be used under severe conditions.
In the case of linear sensor (for the magnetic field strength measurements), a Hall effect sensor:
  • can measure a wide range of magnetic fields
  • is available that can measure either North or South pole magnetic fields
  • can be flat

When electrons flow through a conductor, a magnetic field is produced. Thus, it is possible to create a non-contacting current sensor. The device has three terminals. A sensor voltage is applied across two terminals and the third provides a voltage proportional to the current being sensed. This has several advantages; no additional resistance (a shunt, required for the most common current sensing method) need to be inserted in the primary circuit. Also, the voltage present on the line to be sensed is not transmitted to the sensor, which enhances the safety of measuring equipment.
also lets see what is told here. https://www.2carpros.com/questions/2...r-cars-sensors
I have never bothered to study these items but I think that I read that only one of them is a Hall effect sensors.
 
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Old 08-19-2020 | 07:52 PM
phil alvirez's Avatar
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Default Re: crank and cam sensors: whatsdat?

indeed: The Crankshaft Position Sensor is simply a wire wrapped around a magnet. it is a magnetic sensor.
and more:

https://itstillruns.com/differences-...r-7467710.html
and much more:
https://www.aa1car.com/library/crank_sensors.htm
this has a list of faulty codes that are worth trying in case of symptoms:

CKP & CMP SENSOR DIAGNOSIS

The fastest way to check the crank and/or camshaft sensors on a 1995 or newer vehicle with OBD II is to plug in your scan tool and check for any fault codes.

P0335....Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit

P0336....Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Range/Performance

P0337....Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Low Input

P0338....Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit High Input

P0339....Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Intermittent

P0340....Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit (Bank 1 or Single Sensor)

P0341....Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit Range/Performance (Bank 1)

P0342....Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit Low Input (Bank 1)

P0343....Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit High Input (Bank 1)

P0344....Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit Intermittent (Bank 1)

P0345....Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit (Bank 2)

P0346....Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit Range/Performance (Bank 2)

P0347....Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit Low Input (Bank 2)

P0348....Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit High Input (Bank 2)

P0349....Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit Intermittent (Bank 2)
 

Last edited by phil alvirez; 08-20-2020 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 08-19-2020 | 11:30 PM
onehundred80's Avatar
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From: Ontario
Default Re: crank and cam sensors: whatsdat?

Originally Posted by phil alvirez
indeed: The Crankshaft Position Sensor is simply a wire wrapped around a magnet
and more:

https://itstillruns.com/differences-...r-7467710.html
and much more:
https://www.aa1car.com/library/crank_sensors.htm
boy, there is so much to learn!
There is indeed a lot to learn still but at my age remembering what I have learnt in the past is a struggle in itself.
 
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Old 08-20-2020 | 03:49 AM
phil alvirez's Avatar
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Default Re: crank and cam sensors: whatsdat?

here we can see in detail how the crank sensor is made:
https://www.samarins.com/glossary/crank_sensor.html
(the 1 in the cam has the hall effect and is well protected against dust and the like. i think thats the reason for lasting longer)
and as is installed deep and more complicated to remove, things are way more difficult in case of failure.
wonder why it was not made like the cam?
 

Last edited by phil alvirez; 08-20-2020 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 08-20-2020 | 09:27 AM
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Default Re: crank and cam sensors: whatsdat?

Originally Posted by phil alvirez
here we can see in detail how the crank sensor is made:
https://www.samarins.com/glossary/crank_sensor.html
it is in direct contact with the moving part.
(the 1 in the cam has the hall effect so does not touch anything and is well protected against dust and the like. i think thats the reason for lasting longer)
and as is installed deep and more complicated to remove, things are way more difficult in case of failure.
wonder why it was not made like the cam?
Touches? read it again.
 
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Old 08-20-2020 | 11:33 AM
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From: Lineville, AL
Default Re: crank and cam sensors: whatsdat?

Originally Posted by phil alvirez
here we can see in detail how the crank sensor is made:
https://www.samarins.com/glossary/crank_sensor.html
it is in direct contact with the moving part.
(the 1 in the cam has the hall effect so does not touch anything and is well protected against dust and the like. i think thats the reason for lasting longer)
and as is installed deep and more complicated to remove, things are way more difficult in case of failure.
wonder why it was not made like the cam?
Completely wrong ! I have worked with devices like the CPS since the 60's on computer equipment, back then they were called "reluctance heads".
They NEVER touch the reluctor ring, usually the gap is around 15-25 thousands of an inch.
 
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Old 08-20-2020 | 02:35 PM
phil alvirez's Avatar
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Default Re: crank and cam sensors: whatsdat?

thank you for telling. post corrected.
 

Last edited by phil alvirez; 06-13-2021 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 08-24-2020 | 07:14 AM
phil alvirez's Avatar
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Default Re: crank and cam sensors: whatsdat?

perhaps the best and shortest explanation that i found is this:
" Most engines can run without the camshaft sensor being functional. The crank sensor is the main one that the computer uses to determine where the engine is in terms of what piston is where on its stroke. But since the pistons move up and down twice for every firing of a cylinder, the cam sensor is necessary for the precise determination of where the engine is in the combustion cycle. Without a cam sensor working, you can experience long crank times before the engine fires, and fuel economy will suffer because the computer will be firing ‘blind’ at the back of the intake valves continually. Cutting-edge direct-injection engines may not run at all without a working cam position sensor. In theory, if the computer could know whether the pistons are on the power or intake stroke, the cam sensor wouldn’t be necessary, as long as it remained ‘synced’ with what was going on. But the computer relies on input from the cam sensor to precisely fire the injectors at the right time and for the right duration (pulse width) Otherwise, driveability, performance, and mileage will suffer. "
found here: https://community.cartalk.com/t/conc...n-sensor/72043
 
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Old 06-13-2021 | 12:36 PM
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Default Re: crankshaft and camshaft sensors: whatsdat?

Thanks!!
 
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Old 06-13-2021 | 01:11 PM
phil alvirez's Avatar
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Default Re: crank and cam sensors: whatsdat?

you are welcome.
 
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Old 06-13-2021 | 02:36 PM
JoeO's Avatar
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From: Victor, ny
Default Re: crank and cam sensors: whatsdat?

Duly noted.

the fact that it works with either polar field is of benefit to the Australian and South American car makers. Exporting free technology is something we excel at.
 
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