I have actually been following that thread since before I joined.

I hope he will crack it.

 

Thanks.

Ok, so the V8 with a manual is complicated too then? Because at first, I thought it was indeed complicated. Because I can't think of a V8 Mercedes model with a manual for the last few decades. But then reading some of the info I was lead to believe that a V8 manual was totally doable. I know that converting a SRT to a manual is a headache and having had experience doing the same thing with a Jaguar, I totally just accepted a manual SRT was not going to be my path. But I was thinking the V8 manual was a doable deal.

A stand alone ECU is one of the first things I think of when thinking of engine swaps. If building a track car they are a non brainer. But with a road car you normally lose a few things. I agree with you and wouldn't care bypassing the SKREEM. Not afraid of it being stolen as you say. But what about the other systems in the car if using the stand alone ECU?

 

Josh Chase in China Lake, CA did a V8 swap with manual trans about 3 or 4 years back.
https://www.facebook.com/MercedesSwapShop

 

He has done atleast a few, he does coding for others.

 

It really depends on what you want to do with the car after the V8 is installed.....

I decided I wanted to do a V8 swap..... I was bored to be honest. What one man can do another can do. I started with some very light research on this forum. sk8terjosh09 was the first to successfully install a V8 in front of the factory 6spd. LantanaTX has a few threads for his build that I read also.

I looked at different engines, but got lucky and a low mileage (102k) ML55 AMG showed up in a wrecking yard local to me.... and I grabbed it.

There is nothing particularly difficult about the install..... it pretty much drops right into place and bolts up. The wiring was no headache at all, I chose to use the wiring harness from a 2003 CL500 which I only had to splice 7 wires on to make it fit the XF. The wires were even the same color so there was zero guess work involved.

Josh (sk8terjosh09) has 60k miles on his V8 swap and is still running the original clutch and has had no issues with his transmission. He is running the 5 liter from a CL500 in his car. I think people are overly nervous about the 6spd, and I don't understand that because my V6 6spd car will break the tires loose in the first 3 gears..... the *** end of this car weighs nothing. So unless you had 200 pounds of concrete in the trunk and sticky slicks on the back and were banging gears like you stole the car.... you would probably never have a problem. He's a younger guy, and was even younger when he built his car years ago, and he's told me he has beat on it hard and no issues.

If this is something you really want to go through with, do it. The mechanicals of my swap took all of 3 days and I was taking my time. The electronics have been a little bit of an issue, but I believe we have it figured out. There was a little bit of a learning curve for the guy who built my ECU. The rebuilt ECU didn't want to "link up" with my Skreem module.

The point is, this swap is not going to cost trash bags full of cash. I'm $3200 into mine and that includes the price of the car. It's also not going to take a year to build. I bought pretty much everything I needed for the swap over the course of 6 weeks and continued to drive the car up to the day of the swap. It's also not hard..... regardless of what anyone tells you. Others did it first, and figured out the best way to go about it.... do what they did.

If you are going to drive the car on the street and not on the track or the drag strip, go with the N/A M113. With just a tune and some intake and exhaust improvements, you get close to 400 reliable horsepower out of the 5.4 N/A motor.

BTW, as cool and rare as the SRT6 is.... it didn't interest me in the least when I started looking for my 1st XF. I just can't get over the spoiler they chose for it. I also don't plan on throwing any AMG decals or giveaways on my car. It is going to remain as stock looking as I can keep it. The 5.4 AMG engine has 12 more horsepower and 66 more foot pounds of torque than the S/C V6. After all is said and done, the N/A V8 weighs about 60 more pounds than the S/C V6.

Those of us that have performed the swap are here to help.... me especially since everything is fresh in my mind.

Jared

 

Hey Jared, thanks a lot for joining the discussion. I've been following your thread with great interest. Looking forward to you getting the ECU back and testing it.

It's good to hear from somebody who is doing it that this is not as complicated as many seem to be making it to be. I mean one can take 4 years if he works on it a couple of hours every month. But if one really gets to it, it can't take that long. And it's great to know the engine is basically a bolt on.

The tip about the harness is specially useful. Definitely throws some cold water at the rumors that it is rocket science. Did you just happen to try a 2003 CL500 harness or were you recommended that because it is the easiest to adapt to the Crossfire?

I'm only using my car as a road car. I might take it to the F1 track here once to see how it does. But this is a road car. So it's great to hear the manual transmission and clutch will most likely be fine for that.

You project is definitely happening within an interesting budget range. I would not mind staying close to that.

I'm hoping the fact Mercedes parts are readily available here and abundant will help keeping costs down. I have no idea how much used M113s are going for there. But I already located them for as low as 400 here. Granted it is the 5.0 and not 5.4. But the possibilities of getting close to 400 hp from the NA 5.4 is very appealing. That's definitely enough for me. Maybe even a 5.0 tuned and with similar mods as you propose for the 5.4 would be enough. I want more power than the NA V6 and an enjoyable sports car to drive. Anywhere starting from 330 hp would start making me happy already. But since the swap is the same and the engine price difference might not be that much, I will use a 5.4 if I can find one over the 5.0.

 

It might have taken longer to build a V8 XF way back in the day...… but not anymore. The guys that pioneered the swaps had to sort everything out. Regardless of that though, it should not take 6 months and cost 50 grand, which I was told is what some owners were charged for their swaps way back when.

The CL500 harness wasn't specifically recommended. My engine was removed from a 2000 ML55 AMG which has a Bosch ME2.7 ECU and uses different ECU and throttle body connectors. The XF uses a Bosch ME2.8 ECU. I was told I could cut and splice a million wires and make it work, or find a V8 harness from another car with the ME2.8 ECU and that is what I did. I bought the cheapest V8 harness on eBay that I could find. Regardless of what V8 harness is used, the minimum amount of wires to splice will be 7. However, I can only speak for the N/A harness and ECU. It is my understanding that using a S/C engine is more complicated as far as wiring and ECU.

If it's going to be a road car, go for the manual. My original intention was to perform the swap on my 6spd XF. I had the opportunity to buy another 04 XF for $800 with an automatic and went that route instead. I want to keep my low mileage XF all original.

My budget was $3000. I went past it a little bit because I bought another car. If you already have the car.... then $2500 is a realistic price. $700 of that was my Mercedes Benz DAS system, and the $1000 I paid for the ECU work.

Parts are aplenty!! My engine was $250 from intake to oil pan, and cooling fan to flywheel. I knew a good deal when I saw it. Everything for this swap is available used. Many of my parts were sourced between 2 Pick-N-Pull yards.

Definitely buy a 5.4 if it's available. It is a stroked 5.0 and you can't beat the torque with anything else available at the time.

Anyways, good luck in your search and there's help here if you need it.

Jared

 

I agree. We indeed need to be thankful to the pioneers. Because of them the swap now is no longer rocket science as you say.

Glad it doesn't cost 50 large anymore to do it. I wouldn't do it if it cost that.

Great info about using a harness from a car which uses the same ECU as the Crossfire. That seems to be the most important part here? Since the mechanical part of the swap is the easy part.
And I'm now decided to use a NA engine. So I will try hard to find a 5.4 NA. And it will definitely be a manual.

You indeed got an awesome deal in your engine. I'm not sure I can find that kind of deal. But yes, parts are aplenty here too. With the info you have provided I'm confident I can do the swap without doubling the price of the car. Unless the ECU flashing/reprogramming/hacking process is expensive?

I'm also thinking this process would be different for a manual car? Would you see any extra problems to do the ECU, if the car was to be a manual? Because there was never a manual car with a M113 by Mercedes.

Thanks again for the help offer. I will sure take it with gratitude.

 

Manual with a N/A 5.4 is doable.... it's been done. That was actually my original plan before I found the gray car.

I can put you in contact with the guy or guys that can handle the ECU setup. It's almost the same process as the A/T car.

The thing that can bite you with the manual V8 swap is the year of the engine. Josh would have more info but sometime in the 03/04 model year, they changed the crankshaft where the flywheel attaches. If you wind up with an engine too new, you would have to change out the flywheel. Everything else is pretty straight forward.

Jared

 

Hi,

Again your words sound like music to my years.

Thanks for the tip about the year of the engine too.

I've been following your thread and the small glitch with the transmission. Would it be worth it going with a manual given the glitch? Would it solve it? I guess the manual would have less electronic communication?

 

I would not be having the issue with torque limitations had I gone with the manual instead.

It depends on your driving style if a manual or automatic is better for you. I live and work in a high traffic area and a manual gets tiresome in 30 minutes of stop and go traffic. I am a manual transmission guy, I love rowing the gears... That being said, I am getting older and have begun to appreciate the convenience of an automatic.... put it in "D" and go!!

I will be spreading daily driver duty between my V8 XF and my Corvette this spring/summer/fall. I have a couple of 4X4's to choose from for winter driving duties.

Jared

 

I totally understand your option for the automatic.

Having said that's it's comforting to read the issue with the TCU would not be there with the manual, since I will got for a manual.

Keep up the good work. You will crack it!

 

My TCU is in Texas at Eurocharged right now getting the torque limitations removed and a tune.

I should have it back tomorrow or Wednesday.

I'm anxious to get it back and get on the road.

Jared

 

So am I. Can't wait for the first video of it moving along the freeway, accompanied by the V8 soundtrack.

 

There is a plan in the works for a walkaround YouTube video and a couple of 0-60mph pulls and 60-120mph pulls.

Probably a couple of weeks out right now though. I want to perform a transmission fluid exchange, and my new water pump showed up and I am waiting on the thermostat to get here.

It will need an alignment as well.

Little bit more work to do before I go crazy with it.

Jared

 

Great! I'm looking forward to it.

 

If your concerned with the M113K superchargers extra weight and not on a budget,then you can save 50 lbs of weight by installing a 3 liter Weistec M113K Super Charger Kit. Rudy has done this on a modified converted wet sleeve 55 engine. And now he has just solved the oil pump mounting clearance problem with this converted engine. Squirrel Crusher

 

I kind of like a natural aspirated engine. That it weighs less and has a lower center of gravity is a bonus.

I'm pretty decided. I will go with a 5.4 NA and follow in Jared's footsteps. He is doing great with his swap.